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Old 04-16-2020, 06:38 PM   #136
popgun pete
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

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Old 04-26-2020, 07:05 PM   #137
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

I love this concept, and have been following closely, but its all looking pretty complex.. An inverter setup with 2-3 bands may be a more viable option..?
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:14 PM   #138
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

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Originally Posted by willstroo View Post
I love this concept, and have been following closely, but its all looking pretty complex.. An inverter setup with 2-3 bands may be a more viable option..?
The gun seems complicated, but the principle is rather simple, being an air powered cable winch, although making it is not as easy as a band gun which is basically a slingshot with a supporting barrel and spear holding mechanism. The loading action will be different from pulling back rubber bands as a gearing system is provided by the changing pulley diameters using spiral cable winding tracks and not constant diameter drums. How well that all works will only be known once we get one to try out. The band tension is replaced by air pressure on a moving piston and that pressure can be infinitely varied before you go on a dive which is much simpler than changing bands. However for a given gun you don't often change bands once it is all sorted out beyond their periodic replacement once they start to degrade or break. The gun will not suffer from band soak and thus the gun’s efficiency will be greater.

Downside is the cables have to wrap unimpeded in the drum tracks, that depends on the drum tracks not being damaged by impacts or picking up bits of weed in the grooves, however there has been no mention of any problems in testing which has been going on ever since the alloy guns were tested some years ago now. Alloy and carbon fiber guns use the same winding drum system.
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Old 04-27-2020, 02:41 AM   #139
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The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

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Originally Posted by willstroo View Post
I love this concept, and have been following closely, but its all looking pretty complex.. An inverter setup with 2-3 bands may be a more viable option..?

In terms of loading, I don’t consider it a single stage loading gun any longer. Not if you really want it to sing at least. Andreas’ latest videos feature the pulley loader quite a lot so I’d say it’s probably a toss up between getting the pulley loader out, loading the DreamAir and then storing the loader again vs. loading an inverted roller with 3-4 pulls.

I do think the DreamAir calls for a certain type of person. Probably someone who appreciates the engineering and thinking behind it (whether or not it manifests itself in performance improvements) and one who doesn’t mind doing service and maintenance himself - the type of which would be considered “advanced”, “complicated” or “elaborate” by some. Also, as Pete is alluring to I suspect you have to go more gentle on this gun than many others. One dent in the outer drums could possibly wreck havoc.
Maybe it’s a bit of a diva where a band gun is more of a gritty rock’n roller. Personally, I hoped the CF gun would have had the curves and styling to go with that. But in its latest iteration I feel like it’s lost its looks a little bit.

Performance wise, well, I was never really sure what this gun could do but since the pulley loader was introduced late in the development it may indicate that the original version was deemed to not be powerful enough. Perhaps the pulley system and its theoretical better match with our physiology which Andreas expected would enable spearos to load it at high forces doesn't work in practicality or other losses chip away at the gains. Anyhow, with a pulley loader it gets about twice as powerful. But whether that’s “very powerful” and how it stacks up to a multi banded pulley gun, I’m not sure of. I know a Mirage at twice the pressure than a normal airgun becomes a very powerful and formidable gun. If I really had to venture a guess, I’d say a well sorted pulley gun would probably still fare well against the DreamAir. And taking into consideration the loading regiment and possible extra care needed then in my eyes, perhaps we are back to what type of person the buyer is.

Now, if someone would just make and show some meaningful tests, then I could stop all this “silly” speculation;-). Some penetration tests, average speed of shaft over 3/4m, time for a full loading cycle including storing the loader, maybe a comparison to a more traditional but respected gun. That type of thing. Not long after a new laptop is launched, someone will benchmark its processor's performance. Heck, even the good, independent reviewers will. Same with cars and many other products. Pete might say it doesn't matter, that for 50 years we have caught fish with simple spearguns. That's true but on the other hand, if I was marketing a gun as techy as this, I don't think some hard numbers would be a bad thing. I think either Abellan or Alemmani shares some speed numbers.
But in the end, the gun may be special enough to the right type of buyer that none of that will matter:-)




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Last edited by Diving Gecko; 04-27-2020 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:32 PM   #140
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

What will matter is the price as I cannot see how the carbon fiber gun with its much more complicated three chamber hull is going to be made at anything but a stratospheric price, by comparison a gun like a C4 is just a single tube and compression molded in one shot after being laid up. The original alloy gun used a three chamber extrusion that would have been reasonably economical to make as you just cut barrels to length.
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Old 04-27-2020, 06:35 PM   #141
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
In terms of loading, I don’t consider it a single stage loading gun any longer. Not if you really want it to sing at least. Andreas’ latest videos feature the pulley loader quite a lot so I’d say it’s probably a toss up between getting the pulley loader out, loading the DreamAir and then storing the loader again vs. loading an inverted roller with 3-4 pulls.

I do think the DreamAir calls for a certain type of person. Probably someone who appreciates the engineering and thinking behind it (whether or not it manifests itself in performance improvements) and one who doesn’t mind doing service and maintenance himself - the type of which would be considered “advanced”, “complicated” or “elaborate” by some. Also, as Pete is alluring to I suspect you have to go more gentle on this gun than many others. One dent in the outer drums could possibly wreck havoc.
Maybe it’s a bit of a diva where a band gun is more of a gritty rock’n roller. Personally, I hoped the CF gun would have had the curves and styling to go with that. But in its latest iteration I feel like it’s lost its looks a little bit.

Performance wise, well, I was never really sure what this gun could do but since the pulley loader was introduced late in the development it may indicate that the original version was deemed to not be powerful enough. Perhaps the pulley system and its theoretical better match with our physiology which Andreas expected would enable spearos to load it at high forces doesn't work in practicality or other losses chip away at the gains. Anyhow, with a pulley loader it gets about twice as powerful. But whether that’s “very powerful” and how it stacks up to a multi banded pulley gun, I’m not sure of. I know a Mirage at twice the pressure than a normal airgun becomes a very powerful and formidable gun. If I really had to venture a guess, I’d say a well sorted pulley gun would probably still fare well against the DreamAir. And taking into consideration the loading regiment and possible extra care needed then in my eyes, perhaps we are back to what type of person the buyer is.

Now, if someone would just make and show some meaningful tests, then I could stop all this “silly” speculation;-). Some penetration tests, average speed of shaft over 3/4m, time for a full loading cycle including storing the loader, maybe a comparison to a more traditional but respected gun. That type of thing. Not long after a new laptop is launched, someone will benchmark its processor's performance. Heck, even the good, independent reviewers will. Same with cars and many other products. Pete might say it doesn't matter, that for 50 years we have caught fish with simple spearguns. That's true but on the other hand, if I was marketing a gun as techy as this, I don't think some hard numbers would be a bad thing. I think either Abellan or Alemmani shares some speed numbers.
But in the end, the gun may be special enough to the right type of buyer that none of that will matter:-)




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All this should have been done when the various alloy guns were first out on test some years back, yet for some unknown reason there has been very little revealed about how those guns performed. Bar a difference in weight I expect that the alloy guns would perform just the same as the carbon fiber guns because in a sense it is the same “engine” in a different body.
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Old 07-13-2020, 05:32 PM   #142
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Another fish skewered over a rocky bottom.
https://youtu.be/NezVxA2WbJI
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Old 07-13-2020, 08:01 PM   #143
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

This type of "sea of rocks" bottom used to give me the heebie jeebies when I was using my sinking pneumatic guns as to grab the fish and finish it off I usually had to drop the gun as there was no time to hook it to my float with the fish fluttering around with no helm control and other creatures taking an interest. That is why floating after the shot pneumatic guns were a boon which only came about with the first bunch of rear handle alloy and plastic guns.
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:13 PM   #144
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The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

I have to give cudos to Andreas’ new(?) slogan ‘Made in Utopia’.
So, a ‘DreamAir Unreal made in Utopia’;-)

Seems Andreas has a very well developed sense of self-irony which is what we call it back home though I’m not sure it’s called the same in English. I grew up on that stuff and it’s probably my fave kind of humor.
(Or it could just be a long, elaborate vaporware joke albeit not a very funny one;-))

As always, fingers crossed the gun will become less utopian and that he will have a successful product out there in the real world in the not too distant future.

I think the gun in that latest video is really powered up. I’m almost sure the pulley loader must have been used - the recoil is pretty obvious. From a quick glance it doesn’t look as much as my Evo Mirage @30bar shooting an 8mm x 145cm shaft but it’s not too far off.

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Last edited by Diving Gecko; 07-14-2020 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 07-14-2020, 06:13 AM   #145
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
I think the gun in that latest video is really powered up. I’m almost sure the pulley loader must have been used - the recoil is pretty obvious. From a quick glance it doesn’t look as much as my Evo Mirage @30bar shooting an 8mm x 145cm shaft but it’s not too far off.
I asked about this and Andreas replied already:
"Yes Dreamair Unreal was loaded with the Dreamloader whith pulley at 19atm or 95Kgf on the piston. The piston has an area of 500mm2."
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:53 AM   #146
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

The compression ratio will determine the cocked to shoot pressure, but as this gun has three chambers I don't know what it is as the moving central piston pushes air into the side chambers. With the monotube oval barrel it was possible to calculate it as being around 2.0, but that will not apply here.
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:28 PM   #147
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Andreas says the compression ratio is about 1.5. The central tube is a cylinder, but the flanking side tubes are tapered, so the volumes of these outer cones determines the compression ratio as well as the stroke of the piston in the central tube. Shorter or longer guns may have different tapers on their flanking tubes which would mean slight variations in the compression ratio for those guns. The shape of the outer hull determines what can be fitted inside it.

Bear in mind that the discharged gun has the piston at the rear of the central tube. When you load it by drawing the wishbone back the inner cable draws the piston forwards to about half way up the central tube, this distance being dictated by the length of the spiral tracks on the inner and outer winding drums.

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Old 07-25-2020, 03:28 PM   #148
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

https://youtu.be/E9-hmkNtW6Y

I think we are getting closer to a release since you can subscribe to a waiting list for the aluminum barrel version.
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Old 07-25-2020, 05:15 PM   #149
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

From the facebook page.

In January 2020, a version of Dreamair Unreal was built with aluminium air barrels in order to reduce construction time and costs.

Dreamair Unreal will be available in 3 versions:

1) Dreamair Unreal with 3 air barrels made of Carbon Fiber with CNC & Filament Winding. It is the top version and supports the highest loads and performance.

2) Dreamair Unreal with 3 air barrels made of aluminium, similar in architecture with CF. It is the middle class of charges, performance and cost.

3) Dreamair Unreal with single aluminium air barrel which is the most economical version and supports the lowest loads and performance. In this version the load diagram is not inverted and looks like conventional airguns.

Dreamair Unreal with aluminium air chambers does not show galvanic corrosion between carbon fiber and aluminium (there is a relevant guarantee).

The Dreamair Unreal with single aluminium air barrel can be loaded with 26 bar pressure max and it will be the first to be available.

Cost of the first guns is around 800 euro. That is based on a batch being ordered, not one gun on its own.
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:35 PM   #150
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

You can now order one of the alloy guns which is a single barrel, but I wonder why the force diagram is no longer "inverted" on that model. The winding drums provide a variable gearing as both inner and outer cables pull at varying radii on the spiral track drums as they revolve on the common axle that they are all fixed to. The inversion comes about as gearing can change the force in the cables even though the same torque is seen at the axle at any instant, the torque increasing as the piston compresses the gas in the front end of the gun, leaving a partial vacuum behind it. By pulling at a large radius at the end of wishbone cocking on the outer drums the inner winding drum is at its smallest radius.
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