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08-17-2015, 11:48 AM | #61 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
hope it'll work good |
09-19-2015, 10:30 AM | #62 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,292
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Just to let you all know ... Mario sent me 2 redesigned parts on the internals of the D'Angelo II trigger ... and man oh man does it fix everything! Was on holiday for a while and had those parts for some time, but didn't get a chance to try them out in water. Spent some time this summer trying to try out different ways to fix things and language barrier was a bit of a problem. I initially had wanted to put in a roller trigger in there, but the size of the casing wouldn't allow it. Finally Mario came up with a genius re-design. He first cut the parts out of 6.1mm plate ... that is much more metal than the original 4.8mm metal used ... so already that was much more robust. More importantly he completely redesigned the geometry of the trigger where the "push up" of the shaft no longer happened. So the trigger does not fight the bands and lift up the shaft where it gets slammed as the shaft goes out. Also the trigger travel is nice and short and does not hit the shaft sear and contaminate it, but still does a guillotine drop. To make a long story short, I simply polished the raw laser cut parts a bit, took about 2 minutes to remove the old trigger and change out the parts ... and ended up with a silky smooth trigger that easily dealt with a Pathos 130 gun that I pushed to OB 125 power load.
How did the Pathos 130 come out of this? Took about 30 shots with full loads and moved the shaft to 7.5mm @ 160cm. The setup tested just a couple of hours ago penetrated 15cm construction styrofoam @ 6m pretty easily ... that is blue water power. As for accuracy ... superb accuracy (FINALLY)! My initial tests with the 130 many months ago was so miserable that I actually believed that it was not possible to get a 130cm to shoot accurately! I plan to give it another shot with an 8mm shaft soon and see how that goes. I am a little worried about the ballasting of the gun as the 8mm shaft will make the gun very heavy in the water. One thing I am not worried at all about is the trigger. After the session I took it apart to look for any damage .... there was nothing ... nada ... not even a scratch !!! I am an engineer so usually I expect a first try on a design to not work so well and then you work to improve and slowly get everything working well. Here it just worked perfect on the first try. We are working on a way to get the side line release on the trigger and haven't got that part yet. But to be honest I am perfectly happy the way things are now! |
09-19-2015, 10:43 AM | #63 |
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
OMG
Thanks for all these tests!! How about the accuracy (with the 120) , did you get similar results to your original tests with D'Angelo I mech? I believe that I will also buy the Mantis / MVD roller kit for pathos, if this mech will be that successful Also, Where / When / How can we buy the new parts ? Last edited by Yants; 09-19-2015 at 10:57 AM. |
09-19-2015, 11:39 AM | #64 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,292
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
I haven't tested on the 120 as I am trying to push the trigger as hard as I can. I figure if accuracy is good with the additional band load of the 130 gun, the accuracy for the 120 will be just as good. I did have problems with accuracy initially, but that was with the 7mm shaft and apparently I was overpowering the shaft and whipping it and shaft was entering target at weird angles. Once I moved to a 7.5mm shaft things magically changed and my 3 shot group @ 6 meters was less than 3cm center! Also shaft drop from 5 meters to 6 meters was nothing ... means super flat shooting. The trigger is much smoother than the D'Angelo I trigger after the change. I still don't know what Mario will charge for the kit but I do know that all the work I put into it is for free! I am pretty sure it will not be that much as Mario has very decent pricing on his other stuff.
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09-19-2015, 12:08 PM | #65 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kailua, HI
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Great news! Keep us up to date as to when we will be able to order the replacement parts! I know that I'd definiately be in for a set
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09-19-2015, 12:47 PM | #66 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Ok great!
Are you still using Sigalsubs' 7.5mm shaft (with the cone) ? |
09-19-2015, 12:52 PM | #67 |
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Here are pix of the 2 parts. I actually removed them from the trigger that I was using today and put it back together to test 8mm shaft with more powerful bands tomorrow. I probably will settle for a 160cm @ 7.5mm shaft as 8mm just seems too heavy especially after you are below 40 feet where the gun will feel much heavier. I do wish the shaft I have was about 1 or 2cm longer as the flopper will not sit on the muzzle in the gap left for the flopper. Apparently the Pathos flopper is a little higher on the shaft but the Sigalsub flopper has a cone so is a little lower. As it is I just let the flopper hang.
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09-19-2015, 01:03 PM | #68 | |
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Quote:
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09-19-2015, 01:13 PM | #69 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
yep, it really looks nice
Quote:
I usually dive near reefs, with mixed target fish - Groupers and Mackerels, so I think that i'll stick with the regular coned sigalsub 7.5mm or sporasub one 7mm. b.t.w the new mech looks much more stable than the original. |
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09-19-2015, 07:46 PM | #70 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 343
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Shoot us an update on when the parts are available. I'd like to buy one.
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09-20-2015, 01:12 AM | #71 |
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
The mech is exactly the same, just 2 internal parts are changed. The mech by Pathos is actually very high quality 316 SS, but the design is wrong in many ways. Most likely this started out as a trigger for single banded small guns and as it became popular people started asking for longer guns ... and with longer guns you get much higher loads which was obviously not tested. It is upsetting that Pathos never answered any emails regarding this as this is obviously a huge problem with the bigger guns. I know the agent for Pathos locally and he must have sold hundreds of Pathos guns. He told me the problem was so bad that he simply will not order guns with the D'Angelo II handle and has all his guns setup with the plastic trigger. After trying it out myself with 5 different D'Angelo II triggers I can say that this is a problem with 100% of all D'Angelo II triggers. The problem starts up with the trigger pull becoming unpredictable (which dramatically hurts accuracy) and will reach a point where the trigger pull is so hard that it is almost impossible to pull the trigger. It is very difficult to notice a loss of accuracy due to trigger pull changing unless you are in static conditions in a pool and shots start going all over the place. If shooting at a moving fish you can give yourself 100 reasons why you missed.
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09-20-2015, 03:51 AM | #72 |
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Interesting... I'll try asking my local store as well - just to see their answer.
Also about Mario's parts, is there any reason (other than budget) for using 316 SS instead of using Titanium or any better composites? I read that Ti is more corrosion resistant, lighter and harder than 316 - for example. |
09-20-2015, 11:56 AM | #73 |
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Yes a good Titanium alloy would be expensive and depending on which Ti alloy it might not be the best choice for a shaft sear as a lot of the Ti alloys are quite soft. I did want 17-4 PH hardened SS for the shaft sear as that would be much stronger and would still have excellent corrosion resistance ... but again price is a factor. If I was building a new trigger from scratch, I would have all the parts made out of 316 SS, but then the shaft sear I would cut from 17-4 PH SS and have it properly heat treated. This would be perfect as the harder shaft sear would polish the softer 316 SS trigger sear and you would have a trigger that will always be super crisp. The Abellan Denton trigger actually uses a plastic trigger mating with a 316SS shaft sear that is 8mm thick!!! Obviously Victor from Abellan would only use plastic if it had a positive effect. It certainly does as the Abellan Denton has a very nice predictable trigger.
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09-20-2015, 01:21 PM | #74 |
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
Thanks for that info:-)
If so, maybe we should 3D print some parts out of PC or ABS just for testing, it's pretty easy and cheap - but I'm not sure that this kind of plastic is strong enough. |
09-20-2015, 03:06 PM | #75 |
Snorkel Master
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lower Keys
Posts: 5,588
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Re: Pathos 120 Carbon testing
If you guys wanna make that same type of tip on your spears, check this video out
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