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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 06-15-2013, 06:16 PM   #16
isotopez
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

Riddle me this. I had a long discussion with an old timer on speargun design recently and he adamantly suggested against me utilizing a single band slot with 4 bands on the gun I'm building. He told me that tie in ferrules on top of muzzle would be more efficient in regards to band stretch and streamlining, etc.

I disagreed quietly but his reasoning was that when you have rubber stacked up on the gun over each other, the friction between the gun and all the bands actually slows down the acceleration of the shaft.

I figured the friction had to be nominal but I agreed with the streamlining. Having a mass of bands blocking your sight picture is no bueno.

Anybody think there's any truth to the friction thing?

~kyle
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:22 AM   #17
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

I think this is one issue that would be best described as splitting hairs. There is probably very little difference in power as you can cut bands at different lengths to compensate for minute loss of band stretch. On the other side, there is a lot of friction between the bands and yes your bands will get damaged from the friction if you shoot tons of shots and you shoot in warm water, but your are talking about hundreds of shots and most people change their bands out before any damage is noticed. What I think is more critical is how the bands sit on the stock ... that has a big effect on accuracy and felt recoil. It is probably easier to guide the bands in the correct order by using separate slots, but a band elevator or small band wing just behind the band slots can do the same thing. You certainly don't want your bands crowded over each other in a non uniform way as that hurts accuracy and obscures your target picture.

Personally I think the best solution is something that is done on the Abellan guns. No holes at all, just grooves in front of the stock with a SS cage around that. That maximizes the band stretch without weakening anything ... such a simple yet very effective method. The SS muzzle protects the end of the gun, holds the bands in place, has a line guide and line groove and even has a space to hold the flopper and prevent it from flopping around ... all in one shot!
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:43 AM   #18
Nanna Arms
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

You should look up the shear strength of an 8 gauge stainless steel screw.

When do you often apply lots of force to the muzzle of a gun WITHOUT the spear in it? Not often.

American guns, well, where do I start!
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:00 AM   #19
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

Actually I was a little worried about the small screws as well, and also more worried about the handle material and how it is held on ... but I have been pretty rough with my Abellan and it seems to have held up and haven't heard of any handle failures. I did have one of the line guide fins bend when someone must have put something heavy over it, but was easy to put back in place. I wouldn't mind seeing the muzzle with a slightly thicker gauge SS or maybe even have it made from titanium for the lighter builds as I am an engineer and I always tend to over design everything. Abellan is in the process of designing a 130 and even 140 BW gun, so let's see if he beefs up these parts (especially the handle). I know that the new handles are a little different as I just got 3 new ones in, and the material seems to be much more dense and heavier. It will be also interesting to see if he sticks with wood or goes composite on the longer guns.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:14 AM   #20
The Plumber
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

I build all my guns with individual holes. As you can see in the drawing above, the muzzle with the band slot will have less band stretch than the front three with separate holes.
Also I believe when the bands expand upon fireing, there will be less force on the muzzle. And yes, they lay better. I also offset the bands slightly from the front hole down. I have found they go over each other nicely. Bryan
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:53 AM   #21
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impaler Spearguns View Post
muzzle damage is common in america
Not common in California. But we run our crappy band-ferruled guns with breakaways, so our custom paint jobs and water-ballast tubes don't get scratched up.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:50 AM   #22
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

You said, "america." I felt like making a clarification. You don't need to tell me what diving in California is like; I live here. Those guys you talk to are probably great ambassadors to the sport, and only take what fish they need for their families. Good on them. The combined daily bag limit here is only twenty fish per person, per day, so there is no way we could pull a trigger thirty times in a day. Our guns are too accurate. Must be the band ferrules...
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:28 PM   #23
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

Thank you Patrick
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #24
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

Apparently don't shoot big grouper or hunt reefs and wrecks here (ever heard of a place called Baja?).
But if we did we would have sense enough to rig breakaway, so our over sized, over powered and extremely accurate hunks of lumber won't get damaged.....Bryan
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #25
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

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Originally Posted by The Plumber View Post
Apparently don't shoot big grouper or hunt reefs and wrecks here (ever heard of a place called Baja?).
But if we did we would have sense enough to rig breakaway, so our over sized, over powered and extremely accurate hunks of lumber won't get damaged.....Bryan
Break aways take forever to reload, no really uses them here for grouper or reef fish

Average florida grouper is like between 10#-25#, not really needed

a lot of people in Florida freediving use floats lines directly tied to the gun, we have no kelp and a lot of people who dive tanks here use just a straight shooting line

very common to have you muzzle mashed into structure, unless you use a reel

and yes anyone who has come from CA to dive in Key West has mostly talked about WSB and Yellowtails, so it would be easy to get the impression that is all spearfishing there is about
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #26
Ric.Fallu
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Re: band slot vs separate band holes

Four rubbers makes for a robust speargun (or a hell of a lot of recoil). If you have a robust gun. Having separate holes shouldn't cause any more bulk. Personally, I prefer 2 plus 2.

I have absolutely no empirical proof to back up my belief, but I feel that too many rubbers in a hole, once loaded, would result in them bunching up, and exerting upward and downward splitting forces on the stock.

It also seems to me that 2 + 2 looks better - and if it doesn't reduce function, why not?

Ric
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