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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 04-05-2013, 06:37 AM   #1
Impaler Spearguns
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rollerguns- look good on paper only?

I am starting a new thread , since my last one got dererailed (by me mostly)
it is bringing up a new question
do anyone but gun builders and gun collectors own rollerguns?
everyone TALKS about how great they are- and on paper I have to agree
the thing is: as an example behslayer shows a pick of a cool rollergun he made- he tells a little story about it, and from the story- I was ready to make two of them and get rid of my workhorse guns.
Then it dawned on me to ask- does he actually shoot the thing regularly?
turns out- no. this is the norm - not the exception.
this is recurring theme- the very guys who will argue in favor of rollerguns showing drag coefficients and stuff to prove their points- then when they go spearfishing the next day/week- they go and use the regular guns-
truth is- for all the talk- not one single innovation has taken place on a rollergun in (maybe decades)
the greeks and italians have taken this sytem to extremes- we have seen simple rolerguns - neptonics comes to mind
and strange complicated looking hoist guns with block and tackle setups on them- that look like if it got dragged in the rocks one time- it would be the last time-

wood guy made a good point- about builders just wanting to do something different- and he is definately right on that one
but most shooters are not builders- they buy their guns and shoot them- so the challenge of a rollergun build doesn't explain why the regular guys don't all have them
Think about it- you can take the most staunch rollergun debater out there- and if you delve a little further in- will realize they don't actually SHOOT them

I know why I don't - (commercial shooters dont like long reloads)
I am just wondering why more people don't-
could it be price?
seems like a simple rollergun without the hoists
is the same exact thing as building a regular wood gun- just put on a roller muzzle- they sell them separately
I'm really not sure why they cost so much more?
I know the rollergun- vs regular gun debate thing is old- but I seem to
notice a resurgence of sorts lately on this subject-
will people actually start USING them is my question-?
j
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:51 AM   #2
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

is there anyone who actually shoots ONLY a rollergun?
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:11 AM   #3
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

You should try using the search function. I've read quite a bit about them on here. I plan on building one to shoot it. You should build some and see for yourself what people are talking about. Someone just posted a report the other day and one of the most reputable builders on here has said a lot of good things about them. That is enough for me to build one because of the way he said they perform.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:50 AM   #4
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

Does said reputable builder use theirs regularly? Is it his/her go-to gun? If not, despite whatever hypothetical praises that are heaped, the OP's point still stands.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:08 AM   #5
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

I was hunting halibut with mine last time I was out . I use them all very often, but i have a lot of guns and i use the right gun for the conditions and what im hunting . if i did have to cut down to only one single gun for everything i do it would be a mid handle two stage roller .
if i lived where you do it would be a rear handle
The catch with roller guns is they need to be built right to work really well ,and most that I see are missing a few important,but small details that would make using the gun flow much better . You can't just throw a set of rollers on a normal gun .
Phil
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:56 AM   #6
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

I know a lot of people in Greece that use single roller pipe guns exclusively for the past few years. Is it an old technology? Yes it is. If i am not mistaken it is an American one as well. Made its' way to Europe where they improved upon and now it is making its' way back in the States. Would i own one? Yes. Would i use it on a regular basis? No. But i would use it occasionally.
I am not going to go into what is better and what is worst. Do you like driving a car with 17" wheels or with 19" ? Blue or red?
Price is higher because last time i checked it cost more money to make 4 rollers and install them than drilling a hole in the wood.
My personal opinion: It is a hype and it will pass and it will come back again. It's like Vanilla coke.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:39 PM   #7
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

I saw the test results that Jeff got using his roller. They shoot harder and with less recoil than a similarly sized gun with a normal band arrangment. It does not mean it is the perfect gun, a 90 roller is not going to put perform a 130 but it will out perform a normal 90

No one gun is perfect nor is one always superior

I can't wait to finish my 90 cm roller and it will likely be my go to shore dive gun
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:50 PM   #8
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil herranen View Post
i have a lot of guns

The catch with roller guns is they need to be built right to work really well ,and most that I see are missing a few important,but small details that would make using the gun flow much better . You can't just throw a set of rollers on a normal gun .
Phil
I bet you do!

the neptonics one looks like that is exactly what they did- so far I have heard one guy say he liked it though- I actually like that one BECAUSE it is simplistic- seems doable from a build and a hunting point of view
the complicated ones give me doubts on both fronts
j
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #9
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

Josh at neptonics is making some bad ass ones. People love them so far
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:13 PM   #10
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

My understanding is that roller guns are based on sound engineering and physics principles to extract more power and range from a smaller launch platform with less recoil. The reason they are not ubiquitous is the cost and ease of production.

I think the Tai-Ryo Japanese roller gun would likely be one of the first surviving examples of a roller gun. http://rocknfish.com/Early_Rollergun.html
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:08 AM   #11
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

A lot of it is what you find yourself most comfortable with. I have a nice rollergun, I also have some nice CF Railguns, but I always reach for my standard band wooden guns.

Innovation comes in bursts. Look to the Archery market which is now almost completely dominated by Compound Bow systems. I'm sure this did not happen overnight.

My guess is that Spearguns in the future will have increases in velocity. Decreases in the band loading requirements. The way this will probably happen is with some sort of compound/roller system.

What don't I like about Rollerguns? There is a very subtle 'double action' a 'Thu-Whump' My guess is this is the transition from the first stage to the second stage. While there is no recoil, it's a bit strange for me. Like an Electric Motorbike.. Sure. It makes all the sense and works etc, but it's different.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:48 AM   #12
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

I'll try for myself, then i'll know
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:11 PM   #13
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manoa matt View Post
My understanding is that roller guns are based on sound engineering and physics principles to extract more power and range from a smaller launch platform with less recoil. The reason they are not ubiquitous is the cost and ease of production.

I think the Tai-Ryo Japanese roller gun would likely be one of the first surviving examples of a roller gun. http://rocknfish.com/Early_Rollergun.html


The roller system allows the Japanese rollergun to make the most of comparatively weak rubber bands. The bands, which you seldom see fitted to the guns, are thin rubber straps, hence the cylindrical rollers used at the muzzle end. Few examples of these Japanese guns display any signs of corrosion on their brass parts, so if used underwater they don't show much evidence of long periods of immersion.

The lever cocked rollergun was invented in February 1949 when a patent application was made in France (FR 984,588). So the rollergun was essentially a two-stage loading speargun from the very beginning.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:52 PM   #14
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
The roller system allows the Japanese rollergun to make the most of comparatively weak rubber bands. The bands, which you seldom see fitted to the guns, are thin rubber straps, hence the cylindrical rollers used at the muzzle end. Few examples of these Japanese guns display any signs of corrosion on their brass parts, so if used underwater they don't show much evidence of long periods of immersion.

The lever cocked rollergun was invented in February 1949 when a patent application was made in France (FR 984,588). So the rollergun was essentially a two-stage loading speargun from the very beginning.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:00 PM   #15
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Re: rollerguns- look good on paper only?

Quote:
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