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Old 04-22-2022, 08:02 PM   #16
popgun pete
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

You could think about adding a metal hook which screws (self-tap) or is epoxied into a hole drilled in the plastic. Basically it is a line wrapping point. Some guns use two metal pegs sticking out the front which are just small diameter metal pins. That JBL open muzzle is like a closed muzzle where they sliced the top off and added a few plastic lugs on the sides. You could look at a few plastic muzzles on the web and pick up some ideas there, there are plenty of them. Some have flimsy hooks which can bust off, a problem when using all plastic muzzles.
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Old 04-22-2022, 09:11 PM   #17
3464james
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

Thanks Pete, that is probably what I will do. My frustration level with this is pretty high at the moment.
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Old 04-23-2022, 05:14 PM   #18
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

Gentlemen, I want to thank you all for your input. After much consideration I have come to the conclusion to simply purchase a closed muzzle from JBL ($32.00). I then plan to grind off the wings on my spear shafts and mill three diagonal grooves in the shaft and use what I have. I will then put a little weld in front of the grooves in-order to retain the slip line. I know I could simply buy new shafts but at $50.00 + it's just my time which in retirement is no cost. See any pitfalls, problems , anything I am overlooking? Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-23-2022, 09:30 PM   #19
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

Had a 48" biller with upgraded 5/8" rubber and the hard wire wishbones kept popping out of the grooves. It also tended to shoot low since the muzzle jump lifted the rear of the spear. Just the ticket for gut shots.
Thus removed the stock between the front and back and replaced it with a couple pieces of 3/4 thick oak glued together from the big box store. Made it a bit longer, why not? Routing a bevel on each side before gluing made a nice groove for the shaft down the middle. Bit of sanding near the front and back and it fit right into the biller ends. Drilled some holes in the sides of the oak and stuffed in some 38 cal lead slugs to help with muzzle jump. Painted it with urethane or epoxy, can't remember.
Got two pieces of 1/4" or 3/8" thick? polyethylene (like those white plastic cutting boards are made from) 3/4" wide by the length of the new stock and routed a 45 deg. bevel on one side each. These were fastened to the stock about 1/8" apart with the bevel facing down using screws. This combined with the bevels in the oak made a great enclosure for the track.
Drilled 1/8" holes in the back of the spear shaft for 1/8" stainless dowel pins raking backwards and poking out 1/2" to hold the wishbones. Held the pins in place with epoxy. No more popping out of the stupid grooves. NOTE: Drilled with cobalt drill bit, lots of oil, very slow RPM.
NOTE: 3 bands is too much for the trigger, 2 max.
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Old 04-23-2022, 09:56 PM   #20
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

How about making the line engagement a bit more positive to keep the line in place? File a notch on either side with a needle file, I tried to show it on this diagram and this should snag the shooting line spear wrap better. I have a JBL Sawed Off Magnum tube gun, but the muzzle still has those little lugs on the side which fortunately don't get used as it is the closed muzzle model. For that gun it has a wire wound line slide and stop washer behind it to align the shaft in the muzzle molding. The spear has stop lugs on the sides forwards of the wishbone notches. JBL seem to use the same plastic molding and cut the top off for the open muzzle model.
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Old 04-23-2022, 11:25 PM   #21
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

Sell the gun and get a MAKO wood gun with an enclosed track? Might come close to breaking even with all that stuff, especially when you compromise the shaft and have to buy a new one.
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Old 04-23-2022, 11:41 PM   #22
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

...In reply to Jame's question...I build all my own guns in my garage...I hand carve the grips to fit my hand using teak or mahogany that has seasoned a year.. The handle is located about 1/4 forward of the butt at the exact measurement where the butt lies on top of my shoulder (about 24"). This gives me a tripod, making for a steady grip for aiming quickly, once I lock my left hand over the butt with left elbow held horizontally...When shooting, I lock in and pivot my body, not the gun; like they teach in combat shooting at police academies. ..
....Back in the day (late 60's and into the 70's), myself, Charlie Sturgill, Al Schneppershoff and Bob Stanbery experimented with everything from line packs to 6 rubber guns..The result was reels without any brakes (they lock up just when you need that split second shot) and life guard floats with foam injected for open water..
...We decided simple is better. At this point, I see no reason to reinvent the wheel when my system works well...But, the new generation will continue to tinker to make good; better...now, if I could get a laser gun that puts the shaft in a 1" circle, that would be worth upgrading....

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Old 04-25-2022, 04:36 PM   #23
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

Thanks again gentlemen. After looking at and trying several of the suggestions I am going to purchase the open muzzle. The situation that Bob Ballew describes, the bands wrapping around the line, is a regular nightmare for me. I checked on MAKO's guns, they are nice, but I didn't want to spend so much and will retrograde to the closed muzzle design . Selling my speargun where I live, Placerville, CA, would be a never to happen event. I dive predominately in Baja, Sea of Cortez, and
have to take everything with me when I go, including spares, so I want everything working as best is possible.
PigStikr, could you please describe your insertion oif the pins on the shaft again, I wasn't visualizing the scene? Thanks.
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Old 04-25-2022, 06:53 PM   #24
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

I don't know, but I won't spend a single penny on that gun. Definitely, is not the best design...

And all the mods you are considering to do, would get it worse. You will weaken the shaft with all those grindings and weldings.

You can try with something like this. A pin where you wrap the line:







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Old 04-25-2022, 08:52 PM   #25
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

I would say the reason JBL did not mould those side bumps as hooks on the muzzle molding was it made for a simpler mould design where the molding die just pulls apart on the midline. Any side hook as I have illustrated above would have caught the item in the die and made it impossible to extract. Moulding dies can create such undercut shapes, but then the die has multiple insets which are withdrawn in a sequence to release the item making the molding operation more complex. The die will already have an insert for the muzzle bore hole and another that creates the rear rectangular cavity for the barrel.

As for the spears maybe you could arrange a swap as many would want tabbed shafts if they are upgrading. I have cut wishbone slots using a hacksaw and thin file, but they were in relatively soft stainless steel 316 and the shafts were 3/8" diameter, so I had something to hold onto in the bench vice. Shafts that size close to 6 foot were not so easy to come by in those days!
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Old 04-25-2022, 09:38 PM   #26
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3464james View Post
PigStikr, could you please describe your insertion oif the pins on the shaft again, I wasn't visualizing the scene? Thanks.
Just drill 1/8" holes at a raking angle using a cobalt bit at low rpm. Insert and epoxy two SS dowell pins. Two 5/8 bands are max. The pins stick out above the slippery polyethylene strips that allow the wishbones to slide without too much friction. Sorry for the bad pics/illustrations.
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Old 04-26-2022, 11:01 AM   #27
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Re: Magnet in barrel of open muzzle gun

JBL has redesigned this muzzle and incorporated a metal hook, which appears to be more successful and mimics the RIFE design, they must have found this older design to be less than acceptable.
I never thought of the trade idea, thanks. The pin thing looks interesting will try on one of the shafts and see how it works. I was not sure why the cuts would weaken the shafts anymore than a factory shaft that was cut for solid wishbones. The whole project has become complex than simple. Obviously buying a new gun would be the BEST answer but I just purchased some other guns and they were truly expensive. Thanks again to all you have collectively been a great help.
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