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Old 11-08-2021, 09:40 PM   #1
Scuba Fever
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Some Might Need to Know

In over 48 years of Diving, we have been greeted by the California Fish and Game Dozens of Times .Some have been Polite and Friendly, some have been Rude and Arrogant, but none have been so intriguing as our experience Saturday while cleaning up after our dive.

A warden of the FnG approached us and asked if we had harvested any Game while diving. We said yes and pointed to our mesh game bag hanging in the water next to the boat. He then asked permission to board the boat, as we all were already on the dock. Permission was granted.

He then went through every cabinet and bench seat on the boat inspecting. He did not however enter the cabin, He then took the game bag, and with permission again, dumped the lobsters gently on the deck of the dock. With his gouge, he measured every Lobster. Then he politely reviewed all of our Licenses and Lobster Report cards.

Then he gathered us all around him and informed us that while "TECHNICALLY", all of our Lobsters were LEGAL, "ETHICALLY" one of our lobsters was considered a "CLICKER" and should be returned to the ocean to have a chance to grow an additional year!!!!!

I asked him if his gouge touched on BOTH the front AND the back of the Carapace? He said YES. I then told him that, that was NOT A CLICKER: that the name clicker was derived from a small lobster having a space between the gouge and the back of the carapace. When the gouge was moved back and forth it would CLICK.

He politely told me I was WRONG!! I then asked him if LEGAL meant we were allowed to take our catch home, and he said, Yes, technically. And unhappily, he left.

While for us, this was kind of a FUN experience, im concerned about less informed Lobster Hunters, and the message this guy is selling.

Comments? Thoughts?
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:03 PM   #2
Bob Ballew
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

... To avoid those "debates", I always file my gage slightly oversize...No "clickers" or mis-measured bugs by accident....Remember, there are young officers who have to make mistakes in order to learn all the complications of the statutes. Sixteen weeks of academy doesn't make a skilled officer....
...Hell, have you ever read the rock cod rules and all the I.d. problems stemming from the multiple species? Like becoming a peace officer, you need a law degree and ten years of experience to get it right most of the time and even then, changing events change the rules every season....
...It's just like maintaining harmony in a marriage...."Yes, Dear" and go back to what you were doing.....
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:23 PM   #3
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

[quote=Bob Ballew;2205609]... To avoid those "debates", I always file my gage slightly oversize...No "clickers" or mis-measured bugs by accident....Remember, there are young officers who have to make mistakes in order to learn all the complications of the statutes. Sixteen weeks of academy doesn't make a skilled officer....
...Hell, have you ever read the rock cod rules and all the I.d. problems stemming from the multiple species? Like becoming a peace officer, you need a law degree and ten years of experience to get it right most of the time and even then, changing events change the rules every season....
...It's just like maintaining harmony in a marriage...."Yes, Dear" and go back to what you were doing.....[/QUOTE



Scary part was ... this guy was not young or a NEWBY!!!
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:03 PM   #4
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

...Well, there is always the, "Officer, would you please take this "short" off my hands" I want to follow the spirit of the law"...or, "Officer, do I smell alcohol on your breath?
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:26 AM   #5
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ballew View Post
...Well, there is always the, "Officer, would you please take this "short" off my hands" I want to follow the spirit of the law"...or, "Officer, do I smell alcohol on your breath?


Lol
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:48 AM   #6
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

I had a warden tell me his gauge had to stand up when lodged in place. I told him I’d see him in court over it and he let me off. As far as filing your gauge open, you’re technically breaking the law. Some an divers got popped when that was legal for having over sized gauges.

I do recommend measuring each gauge as many aren’t to spec off the rack.
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Old 11-12-2021, 05:44 PM   #7
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

It is interesting that you were checked at your slip. Not a lot of activity for the warden hanging out at a private dock compared to a public launch ramp. He probably spent some time just waiting for you.

I appreciate that Fish and Game are out checking for cheaters. It's always interesting getting boarded late at night. We have learned to keep our catch in our possession and on our boat for measurement. Usually after they get to know your boat and do not find any violations, they spend their time elsewhere. They still will do quick bug, report card and license check and then off to more profitable vessels.

Keep up the great posts and videos. They provide some good motivation to get wet. Cheers, Kadman
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:58 AM   #8
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

I think the best strategy is to release bugs if the caliper touches the tail part. It's not worth the hassle. Why have to argue with over-zealous wardens and be splitting hairs? There's usually another fully legal bug nearby.

BTW, the same holds for halibuts. If they look around legal size, don't shoot them. Lets say, it's a 22 1/2 inch hali, which is legal. After you put it in your ice box it will stiffen, and by the time you measure it at the ramps, it will be border-line legal, and you risk a citation!
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Old 11-14-2021, 09:35 PM   #9
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ballew View Post
... To avoid those "debates", I always file my gage slightly oversize...No "clickers" or mis-measured bugs by accident....Remember, there are young officers who have to make mistakes in order to learn all the complications of the statutes. Sixteen weeks of academy doesn't make a skilled officer....
...Hell, have you ever read the rock cod rules and all the I.d. problems stemming from the multiple species? Like becoming a peace officer, you need a law degree and ten years of experience to get it right most of the time and even then, changing events change the rules every season....
...It's just like maintaining harmony in a marriage...."Yes, Dear" and go back to what you were doing.....
This is terrible advice.

Fish and game code 29.05(c):

"Measuring Devices. Every person while taking invertebrates which have a size limit shall carry a device which is capable of accurately measuring the minimum legal size of the species taken

While I see the logic in what you're doing, if they found your filed down gauge (assuming you don't also carry an accurate gauge) they could cite you.
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Old 11-15-2021, 11:31 AM   #10
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

[quote=Kadman;2205666]It is interesting that you were checked at your slip. Not a lot of activity for the warden hanging out at a private dock compared to a public launch ramp. He probably spent some time just waiting for you.

I appreciate that Fish and Game are out checking for cheaters. It's always interesting getting boarded late at night. We have learned to keep our catch in our possession and on our boat for measurement. Usually after they get to know your boat and do not find any violations, they spend their time elsewhere. They still will do quick bug, report card and license check and then off to more profitable vessels.

Keep up the great posts and videos. They provide some good motivation to get wet. Cheers, Kadman[/QUOTE


Thanks, man
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Old 11-15-2021, 03:50 PM   #11
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

...Guys, posting speculation that having a slightly oversize gage is illegal is completely misquoting the law...Show me one instance of a warden measuring your gage or, even commenting on it, other than to confirm it is in your possession...hasn't happened to me in the 55 plus years I have dove lobster, nor, do I know of any other divers who had it happen....
...On the other hand, I know of several instances where stamped gages made "abroad" (politically correct, here) were undersize and caused citations to guys who pushed the minimum size and got caught up in the court system...The judges stated the responsibility lies on the diver, not the gage. Not a defense...
Moral: Wardens are only interested in your taking shorts, in violation of a very specific law.... so, go slightly over and be safe....

Last edited by Bob Ballew; 11-15-2021 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 11-16-2021, 12:43 PM   #12
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

Wardens are Law Enforcement Officers like all others; there are good, knowledgeable and polite officers and there are outright imbeciles.

I have dealt with 95% of the former but the latter terribly overshadow the good. I offer a perfect example- His name is officer Luden. Should you every read this name on a DGW uniform, be very cautious-
he is either, grossly inept, corrupt, racist, all of the above or worse.

Officer Luden cited me for a short lobster he claims he threw back in the water before I or any of the 5 people on my boat could see it.
I of course went to court and mopped the floor with him, but it did cost me a day of work and all sorts of discomfort.

We should and must be respectful as possible as their job is not easy. However, they are in the business of kicking you in the gonads when you deserve it. So make sure you don't deserve it.

But, kick them just as hard if not harder when they are an officer "Luden" (name in place of expletive) and stand your ground.
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Old 11-16-2021, 03:04 PM   #13
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

Good Job!!

Thanks for sharing
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Old 11-17-2021, 01:08 PM   #14
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

On a Private Dock??? Someone called that in... He didn't want to be there but got a poaching tip and was told to go check it out...

That's the only reason he would dive into your boat like that and go through everything.

I had a night with 4 limits on board. Pulled out of the launch ramp and a LEO followed me for 2 miles up the road and pulled me over for a flickering tail lamp. Then he and his rookie got on the boat and hand-measured every lobster (Even 4+ lb bugs)...

It was a training exercise for the rookie, no infractions were found and we went on our way. Solid professionals the entire time.

I've been checked by a LA County Sheriff, Coast Guard, National Park Rangers Etc. They all have different training and different expertise. I've had to politely correct them about species and lengths, and once they realize I know what I am talking about, I am polite and friendly with them, they understand I am not trying to hide anything and have my licenses and paperwork in order, we shake hands and they move off to another boat.

I've had officers that know me simply look at my bag and say "those look nice" without ever dumping them out because they can see from looking nothing is short and they have never seen me with a short. The same guy would pull up a week later with a trainee and measure every bug... because he was training someone.

These guys are very good guys. I don't think in all my years of running into them on the launch ramps and streets of PV / Malibu that I have ever had an issue. I've watched a few who knew me by name get promoted, and when I ask new officers about them I get a good story about how they moved up and on.
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Old 11-20-2021, 04:27 PM   #15
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Re: Some Might Need to Know

Seems like every officer has their own opinion in the measurement.

I think the best thing to do is if the gauge clicks over the carapace toss it back and let them make more babies.
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