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Old 01-12-2022, 03:22 AM   #1
doyenofcastle
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cracks on trigger area

Hi everyone ,

Long time since my last post ,I have face a problem recently in my roller gun made of laminated Padouk with a centered Teak stock ,as you see in pictures crack have start from the pin area and propagate toward up and other side ,I remember I have sealed the pin hole with thick layer of epoxy (enlarge the hole by 2 mm then closed by the epoxy and re-drill again the hole ) ,the only issue was that gun was confiscated for few weeks by coast guard ,but that was few months ago, what could be the reason behind ?I used it for 5 years and it was very accurate gun , I don't think repair could be possible ,cracks look more deep internally
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Old 01-12-2022, 07:23 AM   #2
popgun pete
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Re: cracks on trigger area

The mechanism pin holes flank the pocket in the stock that holds the trigger mechanism. This is the weakest part of the gun if it is subjected to side loads during rough handling, such as the gun laying down and something heavy dropping on it which bows the stock laterally. I had a gun shipped in a case that was made up of L-shaped pressed fibre sections all strapped together to form a box, but the first time it was dropped it cracked the stock across the trigger mechanism holding pins which effectively destroyed it, but it only exhibited a tiny crack on first inspection. The guy who packed it was an idiot, but the gun was a write off and I had no comeback.
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Old 01-12-2022, 07:49 AM   #3
doyenofcastle
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Smile Re: cracks on trigger area

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
The mechanism pin holes flank the pocket in the stock that holds the trigger mechanism. This is the weakest part of the gun if it is subjected to side loads during rough handling, such as the gun laying down and something heavy dropping on it which bows the stock laterally. I had a gun shipped in a case that was made up of L-shaped pressed fibre sections all strapped together to form a box, but the first time it was dropped it cracked the stock across the trigger mechanism holding pins which effectively destroyed it, but it only exhibited a tiny crack on first inspection. The guy who packed it was an idiot, but the gun was a write off and I had no comeback.
Thanks for reply and sorry for that lost ,unfortunately life full of that guys ,

From your experience the trigger pin hole shall be drill using bit size equal to the pin diameter or little less ? For that gun i drilled hole 4.5mm but pin is 4.8mm
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Old 01-12-2022, 04:42 PM   #4
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Re: cracks on trigger area

I drill pin holes to size as at some time I may want to drive the pins out and I don't want the timber to crack. Once when dismantling a long-time favourite gun to my dismay one pin drove out taking out a thin surface wedge of timber with it. I had failed to paint over the end of the pins which were stainless steel (316) and seawater wicking in had set up crevice corrosion on the surface of the pins making them slightly rough. This roughness keyed on the timber and cracked the outer layer off on the away side as the pin drove out. The gun was over 20 years old and had always been rinsed after use, but the ocean environment is a tough place. I salvaged the situation by gluing the piece back and doing some refinishing before revarnishing and installing new pins and this time coating them on the ends. This made me realise why old-timers used brass or bronze pins, the copper kills organic nasties working on the timber and the corrosion is not a problem compared to steel (iron) rusting and growing. The chrome protection on stainless steel does not work when oxygen is excluded, like in a snug hole, even on the highest grades of stainless with a lot of chrome content such as 316.
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Old 01-12-2022, 05:27 PM   #5
SEATUX
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Re: cracks on trigger area

Good time to make a new gun.
Can it be fixed? Sure. Is it worth the effort? No.
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Old 01-12-2022, 06:34 PM   #6
Marco
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Re: cracks on trigger area

That doesn't look good...
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:57 PM   #7
doyenofcastle
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Re: cracks on trigger area

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
I drill pin holes to size as at some time I may want to drive the pins out and I don't want the timber to crack. Once when dismantling a long-time favourite gun to my dismay one pin drove out taking out a thin surface wedge of timber with it. I had failed to paint over the end of the pins which were stainless steel (316) and seawater wicking in had set up crevice corrosion on the surface of the pins making them slightly rough. This roughness keyed on the timber and cracked the outer layer off on the away side as the pin drove out. The gun was over 20 years old and had always been rinsed after use, but the ocean environment is a tough place. I salvaged the situation by gluing the piece back and doing some refinishing before revarnishing and installing new pins and this time coating them on the ends. This made me realise why old-timers used brass or bronze pins, the copper kills organic nasties working on the timber and the corrosion is not a problem compared to steel (iron) rusting and growing. The chrome protection on stainless steel does not work when oxygen is excluded, like in a snug hole, even on the highest grades of stainless with a lot of chrome content such as 316.
Thanks for the knowledge you share ,it will help everyone who usually just fix trigger without considering that points
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Old 01-17-2022, 12:29 PM   #8
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Re: cracks on trigger area

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Originally Posted by SEATUX View Post
Good time to make a new gun.
Can it be fixed? Sure. Is it worth the effort? No.
Good advise. Yes it can be fixed but a new gun would definitely be the better fix.
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Old 01-17-2022, 02:31 PM   #9
SEATUX
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Re: cracks on trigger area

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Good advise. Yes it can be fixed but a new gun would definitely be the better fix.
Agreed.
The only exception would be if he had some very sentimental value attached.
I once had a guy come in that filmed for National geographic...his wet suit was SHOT!
He wanted it repaired .. not replaced. It was his Lucky Suit!

So..OK!
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Old 01-19-2022, 02:04 AM   #10
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Re: cracks on trigger area

That looks pretty dangerous! Most likely water has infiltrated the wood in the hole and probably these guns are being loaded through hip rather than chest ... this puts a lot of stress in that area. The proper way to have the trigger installed in a gun is to have the box of the trigger an exact fit ... the pins just retain the trigger in place and don't really pick up the stress of a loaded gun. The load is mainly distributed on the front frame of the trigger box and on a square trigger box ... the back end also prevents lift.

A good idea with holes in wood is to drill an oversized hole and then refill the hole with CF filler and epoxy ... then drill out the hole for the pin. This way you always retain the water tightness of the hole you made and water ingress into the wood is not an issue.
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Old 01-24-2022, 01:10 PM   #11
doyenofcastle
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Re: cracks on trigger area

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
That looks pretty dangerous! Most likely water has infiltrated the wood in the hole and probably these guns are being loaded through hip rather than chest ... this puts a lot of stress in that area. The proper way to have the trigger installed in a gun is to have the box of the trigger an exact fit ... the pins just retain the trigger in place and don't really pick up the stress of a loaded gun. The load is mainly distributed on the front frame of the trigger box and on a square trigger box ... the back end also prevents lift.

A good idea with holes in wood is to drill an oversized hole and then refill the hole with CF filler and epoxy ... then drill out the hole for the pin. This way you always retain the water tightness of the hole you made and water ingress into the wood is not an issue.
thanks for your Great advice spearq8
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