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Florida Gulfcoast Spearfishing Post here to discuss regional action or issues about spearing on Florida's Gulfcoast. |
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08-21-2022, 08:46 PM | #76 |
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Largo Fl
Posts: 641
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
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08-22-2022, 07:01 AM | #77 |
Slayographer
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
are you saying that we should apply the same wild game principles that we have for deer, waterfowl, turkey, ect... to our fisheries?
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01-02-2023, 07:53 AM | #78 |
Slayographer
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Word on the street was right. Looks like the NMFS and the Gulf Council think that the gag grouper fishery is in shambles. For the Gulf of Mexico commercial sector there has been an 83% reduction in allowable catch from 1,200,000 lbs in 2022 to 199,000 lbs for 2023. I wonder what the recreational season is going to be for 2023?
It has been obvious to me for years now that there is a problem with our entire Gulf reef fish fishery but no one has wanted to look at what the fishery used to be and what it is now. The party is over and now the next mornings hangover is starting to creep in. .
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01-02-2023, 08:16 AM | #79 |
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: st. petersburg,fl.
Posts: 2,249
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Ben rec. gag instead of opening June 1 will open September 1 to November 10. I'm sure the poundage reduction numbers are in one of the fishery memos.
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01-04-2023, 08:36 AM | #80 |
Slayographer
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
It's starting to feel like 2011 all over again. If the cycle repeats itself fishing should be open and good around 2028. Too bad the NMFS can't figure out how to prevent these booms and busts.
.
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01-08-2023, 08:13 PM | #81 | |
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Largo Fl
Posts: 641
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Quote:
These groups are as crooked as they come, not many people trust their "science". They only look out for the big guy and trust me, its not us. Our gag season this summer was amazing. There are plenty of fish out there. Its all BS |
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01-09-2023, 09:24 AM | #82 | |
Slayographer
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Quote:
Who do you think is the big guy in this situation? Is it the commercial fishing interests? They just lost about $7 million dollars in potential income due to the massive reduction in Total Allowable Catch. (TAC) I would like to know what the play is here? There has to be other people that are involved in the fisheries that could enlighten the rest of us on the forum. Here is what I know. Around 2007 a vote on the Individual Fishing Quota program was cast by every commercial fisher-person that held a Gulf Reef Fish permit. The IFQ system was voted down. The National Marine Fisheries Service changed the the eligibility of the voter to a permit holder that lands in excess of 8,000 lbs of grouper a year or more. The IFQ system passed and was implemented in 2010. This system was touted as a cure-all for the fish populations and the fish markets problems. Since derby fishing was no longer allowed there would no longer be a flood of fish into the markets at the beginning of the year. This was supposed to allow for stability for fish prices. Also this system was supposed to eliminate overfishing. The IFQ system was also supposed to prevent fishermen from fishing in foul weather because derby style fishing is a race to catch the fish before the TAC was met. A huge transfer of money happened between large quota holders (the people who received large allotments of quota due to their catch history) and the relatively new participants like the boat I started working for in 2009 right before the IFQ system was in place. We sank all our money in to buying quota so we could continue fishing. Some fishermen sold all their quota and retired. Some fishermen spent all of their money buying what they thought they needed to make a living. Other fishermen couldn't afford to buy what they needed so they leased quota from the large quota holders. (essentially turning many fishermen into share croppers) 2010 the Gag TAC was set at 1.2 million lbs. All the small time hook and line or spearfishing boats were doing well. We had a good year and caught the 3,000 lbs of gags that we bought. Fish seemed to be abundant. With no prior warning in 2011 the NMFS said that the gag fishery was on the brink of collapse and cut the commercial TAC by 90% from 1.2 million lbs to 120,000 lbs. The gag quota that we had bought was now worth 300 lbs for the entire year. The lease price on gag went from around $.50 a lb to about $3.00 a lb and the price at the dock for gag was only $4.00. If you leased gag quota landed a 20 lb fish worth $80 you gave the person who owned the quota $60. This was the beginning of the end for Capt. John and the Under Pressure. It seems to me that the plan all along was to suck all the savings out of the small time guy through buying IFQ and then take him out at the knees by reducing the fish that he makes the most money by 90%. I know most of the recreational guys won't cry any tears for commercial guys and I'm not asking you to. I sold my whole operation at the beginning of 2022 right before talk leaked out that gag TAC was going to be catastrophically reduced. That just happed to be dumb luck. What I would like to point out is that this has been done before to the commercial and recreational fisher-persons and now they are doing it again. The only options that I see for why this is happening is either gross incompetence by the government managing our fishery or this is being done on purpose to eliminate fisher-persons. Does anyone have any other potential options for the actions of our Gulf Council and NMFS? .
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01-10-2023, 09:01 AM | #83 |
Retired Comm. Shooter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 5,152
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Back in 1990 when the NMFS started the Gulf of Mexico commercial permitting program, I was told by a high level NMFS staffer that the long term goal of the NMFS was to “reduce the capacity of the fleet”. If you look back at virtually every rule the NMFS has implemented in the past 32 yrs, the direct result was it forced more and more fisherman out of the fishery, myself included. The most powerful tool in the NMFS is “attrition” and they wield it like a mighty sword!
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01-11-2023, 08:03 AM | #84 | |
Slayographer
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Quote:
The amount of recreational fishermen has dramatically increased and their ability to find places that only a handful of "old timers" had in their black books is now easier than ever. The bottom line is that there are far fewer fish in the gulf than there was in the 90's and this trend seems to be getting worse. This is on the front page of the Gulf Councils web site. "Managing fishery resources to achieve the greatest harvest year after year while ensuring the health of fish stocks, ecosystems, and habitat. The Council relies on sound science and public opinion to make fishery management recommendations that aim to balance competing interests and achieve the greatest overall benefit to the nation." This is what doesn't add up to me. If the goal was to reduce fishermen in general that has not happened. If the goal is to increase fish stocks that has also not happened. What is the comprehensive long term plan that is going to keep the fishery healthy? .
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01-11-2023, 05:13 PM | #85 |
Retired Comm. Shooter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 5,152
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Sound science? That’s total bullshit IMO. Their idea of sound science has historically been nothing more than a slightly educated dart throw. They base their rule making on “best available science and data”. However, they conveniently leave out the part where the science and data they collected was done with about 10 or 20% of the money that would have been required to collect truly reliable and complete data. I pressed them on this one night at a public input meeting and their response was, “Well we collected the data using the amount of money that was appropriated for this stock assessment”. So basically, this allows them to always fall back on their “we implemented this rule with the best available data” and we are are all left powerless to challenge their decisions. Once I realized how corrupt fisheries management really was, I sold my boat and permits and got into the Speargun Mfg. business. The irony is, they still maintain a certain level of control over my business.
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01-12-2023, 07:24 AM | #86 |
Slayographer
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
You are on the trail I'm trying to drive on! Are these decisions being made by incompetent government officials, by government officials with an agenda or large corporate interests that are pulling the strings of the government lawmakers? There has to be someone in those offices that would be willing to spill the beans.
I'm not sure if you have been paying attention to the Alaska crab fishery for the past two years but their IFQ system has seemed to have failed miserably. How can the Bering Sea Snow Crab (BSS) fishery go from 5 millions lbs in 2021/2022 to Zero for 2022/2023 without any warning? 2021/2022 Landings Again I see only two options for this situation. Either NOAA is completely incompetent or this is a play to remove more fishermen from the fleet and let the big guys get bigger. What else could it be? .
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01-12-2023, 08:40 AM | #87 | |
Retired Comm. Shooter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 5,152
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Quote:
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Ocean Rhino Spearguns: Designed & Built By Commercial Spearfishermen Manufactured By: Spearfishing Specialties (727)-548-7686 E-mail: oceanrhino@gmail.com Web: OceanRhino.com Last edited by Spear One; 01-14-2023 at 09:15 AM. |
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01-15-2023, 07:45 AM | #88 |
Slayographer
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Where did all the red grouper go?
50 ft of water NorthWest of Johns Pass August 2013. Red Grouper Nursury Can anyone show me red grouper footage like this from this past summer? Or summer 2021,2020,2019,2018? Where did all the grouper go? "In the resturant." #horriblefisheriesmanagment #someoneisstealingyourfishery .
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01-23-2023, 02:15 AM | #89 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Madeira Beach; St Petersburg, Fl
Posts: 1,126
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Balls. Just here poking around a bit (hey Ben, glad to see you are still at it!) and getting psyched to head back to FL and do some diving this summer and I read this charming tale of corruption and destruction...
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01-24-2023, 06:38 AM | #90 | |
Naval gazer extraordinair
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,214
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Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery
Quote:
This was all documented by them in the UN's "Agenda 21" treatise that you can read on their website.
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“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?” ― Frederic Bastiat, The Law |
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