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Northern Atlantic: New England States An area for the cold water divers of the New England States. |
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09-26-2007, 07:05 PM | #1 |
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Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
I try not to shoot females. The guys that got me into spearing have a no female tog rule.. Does anyone out there also not shoot females.. I try not to but sometimes the vis is so bad that all I can do is shoot a shadow..So who knows? I think they taste better..
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09-26-2007, 07:41 PM | #2 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
We have the same rule for a couple of reasons. The first is because most of the time we see em they are full of eggs. The second is that they are so easy to shoot. They always swim right up to you with no fear whatsoever. Maybe they know we won't shoot em! For the most part, big males are smarter and give a better hunt so thats what we go for. That being said if I see a WR female I'm going to shoot it!
John |
09-26-2007, 08:41 PM | #3 |
aka Joe Klinger
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South Kingstown, RI
Posts: 464
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
I don't have a strict rule, but tend not to shoot females, especially if it is clear have a large mass of eggs.
In some hunting circles, it is understood that removing the large males in a population can be just as bad or worse. For some species, the largest males are the most important breeders that fertilize many or even most of the females in the population. Also, the males of some species fertilize multiple females, so the males are important too. If this is true for tautog, then just shooting males is not necessarily the best thing for the population. There might be plenty of females around, but no productive males to fertilize their eggs. There's also important factors in genetic variability to consider as well... I think the most important thing is to allow as many fish, both male and female, to breed and reproduce as many times as possible before being taken. So, I consider the State-minimum sizes as just that minimums...I try to shoot fish larger than what is stricly legal. Similarly, just because the bag limit says you can take a certain number, it doesn't mean you have to take the max every time you dive.
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09-26-2007, 08:56 PM | #4 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: bethlehem, PA
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
one thought on this is to find out the natural population ratio of males to females.
for example.......most states have way more bucks than does when it comes to the deer population. well.......whitetail deer naturally occur in a 1:1 ratio. (actually just about every animal out there reproduces in a 1:1 ratio for the most part) so for every male born there is a female. the high female numbers comes from people harvesting more bucks than does during the last 30 years......there is a lot more that goes into limits now....NJ has earn a buck tags....you need to shoot, tag, and record your doe with the state before you can get your buck stub. this ensures that for every buck being removed there is also a doe. it would be cool to find out the ratio for Tog and then.......you can make an informed decision about shooting males all the time or splitting it up. you may be doing more harm than good. need gills makes a REALLY GOOD POINT.......by following the state minimums and bag limits you're doing a really good service to the Tog....there is a good amount of study that goes into figuring out those numbers....and population size, sex, and density is one of those. personally i see no difference in shooting females or males. i just go for the biggest one i can find and then i cook it up! later, riggs
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09-26-2007, 09:21 PM | #5 |
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
Around RI tog are everywhere, shoot em all, now in other places like northern Mass and maybe NJ there may not be the high population density, so these things might be a reasonable question, but in RI and CT there are too many if you ask me, so shoot away!!
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09-26-2007, 11:37 PM | #6 |
Going deeper!
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Location: La Paz, MX, NC, MD, RI, MA, ME, GA, and back to RI
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
good to see downandout as so conservation minded!
simple point is: dont bother with the small stuff, and if you are going to take ANY kind of fish, only take what you will eat or a trophy. tog are stupid, we all know that, you dont need to prove it Gabe
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09-27-2007, 09:23 AM | #7 |
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
Along the lines of this discussion I had an interesting experience this last Sunday that I'm actually thinking of contacting a CT DEP fisheries biologist about. I've yet to start spearing, but I was fishing H&L last Sunday as tog season opened in CT, and from the spot we were on out of 12 togs we got, only 1 was a male. (fish not kept successfully released thanks to circle hooks) The ratio was just very unusual. I didn't have my mask/fins/suit on the boat or else I'd have gone down to take a look at what was going on down there! Next time for sure.
RE keeping fish - legal size in CT is 14" which I think is pretty small, and I have a self-imposed minimum of at least 16". Also I agree that you should only keep what you will use quickly, vacuumseal for winter or filet and give to someone else to eat. My neighbors were thrilled to get the tog filets I gave them. I need to learn to judge size underwater. I've heard a method where you take a tape measure down and measure things like rocks to learn sizes underwater? Anyway, back to the topic of this thead. I used to subscribe to the no-female rule, but now feel that keeping a minimum of larger sized fish may be a good practice.
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09-27-2007, 09:42 AM | #8 |
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
Tog can change sexes too, just want to add that, not sure how that plays in here....
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09-27-2007, 10:01 AM | #9 |
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
read below....it'll give a little more info on that.....they're not true hermies like bass can be sometimes. it'll
SEXUALITY In contrast to most labrids, tautog are not protogynous hermaphrodites (Olla et al. 1981). They are heterosexual, but two different morphological males are thought to be present in the population. One type of male is dimorphic with a more pronounced mandible than found on the female, and the other type is nondimorphic and resembles the female (Olla and Samet 1977; Hostetter and Munroe 1993). It has been suggested that the nondimorphic male may be: 1) a sexual stage in the life of the tautog, 2) an indicator of hermaphrodism, 3) a means to increase spawning opportunities, or 4) coincident with a different reproductive behavior than the dimorphic male (Hostetter and Munroe 1993).
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09-27-2007, 10:24 AM | #10 |
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
This is a good subject and it demonstrates that, by and large, spearfishers are conservationists and do what's best for the resource. I'm sure Downandout isn't serious about there being too many tog. In fact, unless I misunderstood the table at the end of this report (http://www.asmfc.org/speciesDocument...soryReport.pdf), tautog landings have declined significantly in the last two decades.
In my limited experience, they seem to be ridiculously numerous. But then I've only been diving in RI for several years so I have no idea what a healthy population is supposed to look like. But I do know they live long and grow slowly and it freaks me out that some fish I've taken were perhaps 20 years old. As a rule of thumb, big females have significantly more eggs than smaller ones, so maybe Oystertoadfish is on the right track about taking the big females. What do you call them, Togzillistas? |
09-27-2007, 11:53 AM | #11 |
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
With regard to size, i have a pretty simple rule that works very well (For Me) If the head of the tog is large enough to target with verylittle chance of hitting the body from 6-8 feet with a shorter gun (30-40 inches) then it is a keeper. In my experiance the min size i take is 18.5"-19", perhaps i am a crappy shot, i don't know, but it works and when i pull the trigger i am batting about 800.
This helps in 2 ways, restricts the size of the fish i am comfortable shooting and also helps emiminate the poor meat quality and suffering caused by a guy shot. Just my $0.02.
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09-27-2007, 06:32 PM | #12 |
That's a huge fish!
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
I try to judge by the white chin or the thickness of the head and lips, more of a size relation.
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09-27-2007, 09:04 PM | #13 |
RobM
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newport, RI
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
I take two, sometimes three guns down at a time...especially when the females are around. A little trick Guy LeAwsome taught me. He has a gatteling (spear)gun constructed from scrap metal off of the Eiffel Tower.
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09-27-2007, 09:32 PM | #14 |
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
Right on Rob, I believe in shoot anything you see and sort 'em out on the surface!!!
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09-27-2007, 10:59 PM | #15 |
That's a huge fish!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Onset, MA
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Re: Whats the verdict on female blackfish??
Guy Leawsome wears a shiny blue Speedo that attracts female tautogs by the thousands...he has to tow a second kayak behind him just for all the fish...
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