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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 12-14-2023, 05:32 AM   #1
popgun pete
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Rapid Reloading with Closed Muzzle Guns

On occasion I have found my shot has not stoned or incapacitated my prey and the barbs or tip have either pulled out or torn out. Not under full helm control the fish is then making best efforts to escape, but lacks coordination or engine power to put a big distance between us. These situations require a quick reload as the fish is often too lively to grab and may be some distance away doing erratic orbits. With a closed muzzle gun I just ram the shaft back into the gun, haul the bands back, throw the shooting line to the side and let fly as the fish either comes into shooting range again or I dive down towards it. You cannot get off such a quick shot with open muzzle guns as you have to string the shooting line first. Nothing worse than having the spear flop off the barrel as you reload an open muzzle gun, unless it is a closed track.

The same quick reload advantage can be had with pneumatics, with no time to string the line you just chuck it aside and let fly, the shot usually killing the fish as not under helm control or power you can shoot it in the noggin. This also incurs less battle damage other than that which the fish has already sustained as a result of the initial hit. Prangers can tear out as you don't have any chance of skewering the fish unless it is a tiddler, or a garfish, flounder or flathead, the latter two being jammed down against the bottom. Single points are fish penetrators, but can still rip out if it was a glancing hit. Using heavy spears means fish often receive incapacitating if not fatal battle damage, much better than hitting them with a knitting needle, unless the fish are on the small side.

Spearfishing videos don't often show such hits, the prey in them often looking not too much worse for the wear, but any spearfishermen knows clean hits are not always the case and despite the best of intentions the fish can look rather secondhand once put out of its misery.

The open muzzle Scubapro seen above has a tabbed line slide that fits in a vertical slot in the muzzle, but even that more positive location on the barrel makes it still necessary to string the shooting line when trying to get a quick second shot off. Guns that I have not tried which may be more amenable to quick second shots are magnetic tracks, but I have never used one.
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Old 12-14-2023, 05:36 AM   #2
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Re: Rapid Reloading with Closed Muzzle Guns

Open muzzle guns arose out of the use of tabbed shafts, these being used on early closed track guns even before the Arbalete became the preferred band gun, and its cocking stock equivalent spearguns. Tabbed shafts were being used to eliminate wishbone notches which can weaken a shaft, but as shafts were later being made of better stuff that was not really so important. Another reason for open muzzles was it was an attempt at quick reloading, but the guns that benefited the most from this were open sear box models where you dropped the shaft in from on top, there being no sear box roof. Some of these guns were also spear tail drivers where the wishbones go on the rear butt of the shaft. Some Florida Reef Rifles used this system where extra bands piggybacked on the master wishbone that had to be set first. Very few people have been one of these nowadays, but they had been used in the distant past. Thanks to John Warren and his discussions with Don Peterson I have seen photos of their guns. (May have that name wrong, I need to check it.)

No matter how you put the shaft in it has to have its tail fed under the bands/wishbones or you will shoot the line through the band loop, not underneath it. This stymied attempts with cross cut muzzles where you put the shaft through at an angle and then you straightened it up. The original Champion Cavalero ARC 2000 used this type of muzzle and that was around 1986 vintage from memory. It still used wishbone cut shafts in that muzzle.

This is the brochure that came with the ARC2000 gun, picked it up at a dive show exhibition, but I never used one of these guns. Intended to be their gun for the then future it was saddled with chrome plated trigger mechanism parts. In later years these guns got new innards when Beuchat took over Cavalero and this handle has ended up in clones out of Taiwan in more recent years.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 12-14-2023 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 12-15-2023, 04:40 PM   #3
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Re: Rapid Reloading with Closed Muzzle Guns

A band gun that you could reload by dropping the shaft in without worrying about feeding the shaft tail under the wishbones/bands was the Swimaster Magnum Toploader. This was because the wishbone notches are on the bottom of the shaft, but the bands need to be held back against the barrel when you do it and to facilitate that the wishbones hooked into a band arrestor on the barrel, a metal hook system that could be slid along the barrel tube. The spear shaft was a press fit into the muzzle via an opening on top, but the downside of this novel arrangement was the metal wishbones crashing into that arrestor hook on the barrel. Another toploader gun was the Scubapro, now Bandito Panther, but with them you still have to feed the spear tail under the bands. A problem with the wishbone notches on the bottom of the shaft rather than on top is a tube gun cannot use a plastic guide track stuck onto the barrel tube as the cocked wishbones sit underneath the shaft. Back in the day that was not such a problem as tube guns had no guide tracks, a few exceptions being the Scubapro above and the US Divers Sea Hunter which was famous for its roller sear which acted as the tooth and reciprocated back and forth in its conical tail end sear box. These guns used formed alloy tube barrels that had the guide track pressed into the alloy tubing as it was being made, a more expensive to make barrel rather than just lopping the required length off stock tubing.
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Old 12-15-2023, 04:57 PM   #4
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Re: Rapid Reloading with Closed Muzzle Guns

Another potential toploader was the completely crazy Fer De Lance rollergun from Gary, but actually another In Depth Incorporated gun using the Colt 1911 automatic inspired handle. This gun looked great at a glance, but was an object lesson in design errors, there are over a dozen of them, but the parts were generally well made even if ill considered. Like the other toploader's the wishbone notches are under the shaft, not on top.
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Old 12-16-2023, 04:45 PM   #5
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Re: Rapid Reloading with Closed Muzzle Guns

Second reload shots on the same fish are not common, but they happen, especially in a reef canyon complex as the fish only have so many escape options, plus being damaged they have lost their direction control. On one occasion I had a fish doing out of control loops and to my amazement swam right back to me at the surface as if for me to finish it off. Dismissing the thought as a coincidence I obliged, but this time with my knife as it had completely run out of steam, the hit just behind its skull had torn a small chunk out. That is where I stuck my knife, breaking its spine.
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Old 12-17-2023, 10:16 AM   #6
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Re: Rapid Reloading with Closed Muzzle Guns

Thanks for these posts, Pete. I always learn a great deal from you. I have grabbed more than one orbiting/crazy wounded fish to my regret (spines in my palm) that should have had a second shot instead of being grabbed. Second shots have always been slow for sure, especially with the open muzzle guns I use. The commercial fishermen in Florida use a closed muzzle and just freeshaft. That works where there is good visibility to trail the fish if he swims off with the shaft.
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Old 12-17-2023, 08:42 PM   #7
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Re: Rapid Reloading with Closed Muzzle Guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
Thanks for these posts, Pete. I always learn a great deal from you. I have grabbed more than one orbiting/crazy wounded fish to my regret (spines in my palm) that should have had a second shot instead of being grabbed. Second shots have always been slow for sure, especially with the open muzzle guns I use. The commercial fishermen in Florida use a closed muzzle and just freeshaft. That works where there is good visibility to trail the fish if he swims off with the shaft.
Well Kevin could certainly comment about that, remember that commercial muzzle he used to use on his spearguns using the Sea Hornet gun body from Australia? Unfortunately, TUSA grabbed the Sea Hornet franchise and then blew itself up. Kevin then incorporated a similar long muzzle on his own Ocean Rhino which is all tooled up for quick shooting, everyone should have one in their arsenal. Made in the USA too.
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