Mid-Handle, 2+ Band Blue-Water Roller Build

[Grizzlestomp]

Originally Posted by phil herranen

I will get back to this later , you don't know how to post pics off a phone do you, every time I try it won't do it .

I have the same problem with my phone. I'm no help.

[Fox55]

Originally Posted by Grizzlestomp

I have the same problem with my phone. I'm no help.

I would guess your file on your phone is too large and it times out try turning your resolution down

[Grizzlestomp]

Regarding compound rollers, I noticed some people "invert" their bands (i.e. on the Alemmanni it is an option). I.e. they have larger diameter bands on the bottom of the gun with smaller diameter bands on top of the gun. Supposedly to reduce recoil.

To me this sounds counter-intuitive. If you have two split bands on the bottom of a gun and one on top, it seems the same diameter band should be used, or even a thicker one on top. Otherwise, it seems like the top band will be stretched far more than either of the bottom bands.

Anyone have any experience using different diameter bands in a compound roller?

[jstiver09]

On that inverted roller ^^ spectra goes back to the sharkfins, not bands...leaving for a cleaner sight picture and less drag through the water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grizzlestomp]

I think it's just a matter of labels. Their gun with the pullies they call "Demultiplied" at least in the English translation of their website, as in the 130 Vela in the first picture below with the pulleys.

They also offer a version of their traditional compound roller where they offer different band diameters for the single bands that stretch to the sharkfins and the split bands on the bottom. See second picture (my buddy's 130 was configured with 14mm front bands and 16mm back bands).

[jstiver09]

I see that now. I always thought "inverted" rollers had bands on bottom with long wishbones on top.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gspearguns]

Inverted means that bands are stretching in opposite direction than on the classic spearguns.
Inverted bands with reduction from two to one band has thin dyneema rope (0.9-1.2 mm) through that single band to limit it's streching to some particular coeficient, for example 350%. Without that single band would be more stretched that double bands.
It can be used one to two bands of same diameter but usually it is one smaller OD to two pieces of bands with larger OD. I used to make inverted band with 14 mm to two 16 or 18 mm bands, usually softer.
For single band do not use small ID because rope need space when contracting.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php...ight=gladiator

[Grizzlestomp]

Originally Posted by gspearguns

Inverted means that bands are stretching in opposite direction than on the classic spearguns.
Inverted bands with reduction from two to one band has thin dyneema rope (0.9-1.2 mm) through that single band to limit it's streching to some particular coeficient, for example 350%. Without that single band would be more stretched that double bands.
It can be used one to two bands of same diameter but usually it is one smaller OD to two pieces of bands with larger OD. I used to make inverted band with 14 mm to two 16 or 18 mm bands, usually softer.
For single band do not use small ID because rope need space when contracting.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php...ight=gladiator

Genius. That way the top band can be small outer diameter and keep a clean line of sight but not be overstretched and lose its power/wear out quickly. I like that idea a lot.

When you use this setup, what would the load order be. Would you release one of the split bottom bands, load the top band, then reload the split bottom band? Or would you need to release both bottom bands before loading the top band?

[jstiver09]

Gspearguns, thank you for the education. Your guns seem very well designed, both rollers and standard setups. Do you see a noticeable increase in power in your roller guns vs say a 2 or 3 banded conventional gun? I think you may be more qualified than others to make that judgement. Do you see an improvement using small ID bands with both types of guns?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gspearguns]

Originally Posted by Grizzlestomp

Genius. That way the top band can be small outer diameter and keep a clean line of sight but not be overstretched and lose its power/wear out quickly. I like that idea a lot.

When you use this setup, what would the load order be. Would you release one of the split bottom bands, load the top band, then reload the split bottom band? Or would you need to release both bottom bands before loading the top band?

Like on every other rollergun bands stays pretensioned after shot and you have to release one of the bottom bands prior to loading the gun. It's impossible to load a gun with both pairs od bottom bands catched. Order of loading is top band then second bottom band which was released.

[gspearguns]

Originally Posted by jstiver09

Gspearguns, thank you for the education. Your guns seem very well designed, both rollers and standard setups. Do you see a noticeable increase in power in your roller guns vs say a 2 or 3 banded conventional gun? I think you may be more qualified than others to make that judgement. Do you see an improvement using small ID bands with both types of guns?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Increasing of power is significant. For example, mono roller 90 with double bottom bands and 7 mm shaft have power as 2 band classic 110 speargun.
Moveable pulley roller 110 with three bottom band pairs (every band is 23-24 cm long) and 8 mm (or 8,5) have more power than classic 130 gun with 3 x 16 mm bands. That shaft reach 5 m from the tip in less than 0.2 seconds.
Recoil is much, much smaller and because of that accuracy is better.. Whole gun is smaller and easy to move.

[Grizzlestomp]

Originally Posted by gspearguns

Inverted means that bands are stretching in opposite direction than on the classic spearguns.
Inverted bands with reduction from two to one band has thin dyneema rope (0.9-1.2 mm) through that single band to limit it's streching to some particular coeficient, for example 350%. Without that single band would be more stretched that double bands.
It can be used one to two bands of same diameter but usually it is one smaller OD to two pieces of bands with larger OD. I used to make inverted band with 14 mm to two 16 or 18 mm bands, usually softer.
For single band do not use small ID because rope need space when contracting.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php...ight=gladiator

Would you recommend something like this to run inside the 14mm top band?

http://www.spearamerica.com/speargun...-25mm-50m.html

[Behslayer]

Mr. G, are simple 2 stage Rollers outdated? I haven't made one in a while, but I was considering it. How would a simple 2 stage Double roller using 2 continuos 16mm bands compare in power and range to these more complex systems?

[gspearguns]

Originally Posted by Grizzlestomp

Would you recommend something like this to run inside the 14mm top band?

http://www.spearamerica.com/speargun...-25mm-50m.html

It's ok, but I preffer 1 mm.

Originally Posted by Behslayer

Mr. G, are simple 2 stage Rollers outdated? I haven't made one in a while, but I was considering it. How would a simple 2 stage Double roller using 2 continuos 16mm bands compare in power and range to these more complex systems?

Not outdated but these 'more complex system' as you named it shows better performances. If you build classic double rollergun you could still make invert bands. Recoil is even less than on continous bands. You could make one continous and one double invert band. That's 3 stages loading instead 2 you have mentioned but give more power espetially with thicker shafts.

[Grizzlestomp]

Originally Posted by gspearguns

Inverted means that bands are stretching in opposite direction than on the classic spearguns.
Inverted bands with reduction from two to one band has thin dyneema rope (0.9-1.2 mm) through that single band to limit it's streching to some particular coeficient, for example 350%. Without that single band would be more stretched that double bands.
It can be used one to two bands of same diameter but usually it is one smaller OD to two pieces of bands with larger OD. I used to make inverted band with 14 mm to two 16 or 18 mm bands, usually softer.
For single band do not use small ID because rope need space when contracting.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php...ight=gladiator

Quick question on how to rig up the top band with 1mm line inside. I assume you the pull the line through with a wire or something and push the extra line inside the band. Then tie the knots with constrictor cords and leave looped wishbones. My only question is whether loops for removable wishbones made up of only 1mm line is strong enough to handle the forces involved in loading these guns.