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Old 09-28-2009, 04:51 PM   #136
Bulit7
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

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Originally Posted by IslandFever View Post
Ain't that a great word You can use it as an adverb too. "He douchebagged me!!!"
Think its more like: "I douchebagged myself and he exposed me!"
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:01 PM   #137
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

Sorry I'm not macho enough to play in your sandbox Built7. I posted here to relay what I saw at the FWC meeting in HITH. Shoot the messenger if you like, I never advocated for the seasonal closure, although I still agree with the spawning closures, nothing I've heard here in this forum changes my mind.

Keep pounding your chest and complaining without any meaningful participation in the process. You reap what you sow. I'm not the one trying to take away your fishing rights, your anger is misdirected and probably will do you more harm than good in the long run.

If you're not happy with the fishing rules, take part in the process and make a difference. I didn't think anything I posted was earth shattering or inflammatory. In fact I'm really surprised at the reaction to some of my posts. I've monitored the regulatory bodies, but I've never voiced my opinion to them. I think that people using the resource should understand the process.

I'll be diving, and when I want fresh fish I'll take what I want when it's available and in season. I'll continue to lurk on the board, enjoying the pictures of successful trips and tournaments. I'll be on the water as much as possible. How about you?

Safe Diving
Cheryl
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:12 PM   #138
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

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Originally Posted by DamselDiver View Post
Sorry I'm not macho enough to play in your sandbox Built7. I posted here to relay what I saw at the FWC meeting in HITH. Shoot the messenger if you like, I never advocated for the seasonal closure, although I still agree with the spawning closures, nothing I've heard here in this forum changes my mind.

Keep pounding your chest and complaining without any meaningful participation in the process. You reap what you sow. I'm not the one trying to take away your fishing rights, your anger is misdirected and probably will do you more harm than good in the long run.

If you're not happy with the fishing rules, take part in the process and make a difference. I didn't think anything I posted was earth shattering or inflammatory. In fact I'm really surprised at the reaction to some of my posts. I've monitored the regulatory bodies, but I've never voiced my opinion to them. I think that people using the resource should understand the process.

I'll be diving, and when I want fresh fish I'll take what I want when it's available and in season. I'll continue to lurk on the board, enjoying the pictures of successful trips and tournaments. I'll be on the water as much as possible. How about you?

Safe Diving
Cheryl
I think you have made some excellent points Cheryl...I just can't help but laugh at a name calling fest over the Internet.

If I haven't said so already, I am FOR the closure during spawning. I think it would make a remarkable difference.
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:53 PM   #139
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

Dear FWCC Staff Members,

This email serves as my official request that the attached forum entries be included in the official record of the process of developing/modifying the grouper and permit regulations as they pertain to state and Federal waters off the coasts of Florida. While the document is lengthy and centers on grouper, it serves well to apprise the commissioners of the various mindsets of the spearfishermen who will be governed by the regulations the Commissioners approve and as well the potential impact on both resources. I have included the attached word file that contains all posts up to the time of this email in case the forum is pulled. Should the forum remain intact it may be easier to read the postings by going directly to the link at: http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=92102 I suspect that there will be more posts to come. Please feel free to contact me at your convenience should you have any questions or need any assistance.

Best Regards,

Bill Parks


I just put your money where your mouths are. Let's see how this goes...
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:12 PM   #140
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

Divide & conquer!
Rule #2 in the fisheries management hand-book. This is why people like Holly Binns (PEW trust) have such an easy time getting these regs passed. Chest pounding, name calling & yelling will never get us anywhere. I have been following fisheries theft..........management policy since Magnussen was created & never saw this kind of passion back then. All that I heard was "Man, that will never happen". Guess what? We are in the eleventh hour of a battle that is, at this point almost un-winnable.
Visiting marinas & boat ramps to educate & organize un-knowing people, phone calls to representatives & Sec. of Commerce Locke, talking to dive shops & tackle dealers are all good ways to organize a formidable force. I am afraid it is too late, though. This closure will just generate new revenue in the way of fines for new government management organizations. It will also make criminals out of good, everyday people.
As for "government science", research into counting methods, biomass extrapolations & other math used to "estimate" fish populations are about as accurate as Global Warming science & "Ocean Acidification" science that use experiment data that is so skewed it has been laughed at by real scientists that are not on the government payroll.
As for far less grouper than "back in the day", if you go out deep enough, you will find that spawning aggregations are still congregating in places with less pressure. Grouper are not stupid! I can still take people to places that hold masses of grouper that would scare you! I have found that memories of the glory days tend to get fuzzy after the passage of time. No offense to anyone! Acres of Grouper is probably an exaggeration or a distant memory.
If they close a certain area, fishermen will just fish down the chain until another species is declared as over-fished.
Also, if the fish under regulation were to ever reach the numbers that gov't scientists say they should be at, there would not be enough food, or habitat to sustain any of them.
Fisheries management is following along the same lines as the current administration. Far right or far left. No compromise!
We have a group of head-boat captains here in GA(with the assistance of the CCA) that have come up with a proposal to completely ban spear-fishing & also close the Artificial Reefs! Also there would be "special research catch permits" issued to select captains to fish the closed areas! Captains that have claimed to be in support of us.
Divide & conquer!
Go to this link http://www.safmc.net/Meetings/Counci...1/Default.aspx & read some real depressing crap that is too late to turn.
It will show the results of the Charleston meeting & how each rep voted.
Divide & conquer!
Read the signatures of SC fishermen that want to implement IFQ's & Catch shares!
Public comment will be accepted through October. Put some of this negative energy to good use & organize!
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:13 PM   #141
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

Very Cool Bill. If you've been around South Florida for as long as you have, you have to know that the depletion of the fisheries has been more of a Political/Economical screw up than Spearos just shooting some fish. We can stop people from fishing, and sure this would help some, but the real issues that caused the problems would still remain. Main one being habitat destruction.
I found this on youtube and tought I'd share. What I previously posted about the dredging has been known for a very long time. Hope these posts also shines a light on yet another issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da3oNEFn6Rg
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:57 PM   #142
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

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Originally Posted by Toledo970 View Post
Very Cool Bill. If you've been around South Florida for as long as you have, you have to know that the depletion of the fisheries has been more of a Political/Economical screw up than Spearos just shooting some fish. We can stop people from fishing, and sure this would help some, but the real issues that caused the problems would still remain. Main one being habitat destruction.
I found this on youtube and tought I'd share. What I previously posted about the dredging has been known for a very long time. Hope these posts also shines a light on yet another issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da3oNEFn6Rg
A lot of truth to your post concerning lost habitat BUT it's not an excuse to not try to make do with what we have left. Increased fishery regulation has assured a healthy snook population, sent the jewfish toward recovery, rebuilt the stocks of striped bass in the northeast and will no doubt help the recovery of grouper to whatever level is possible.
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:17 PM   #143
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brailediver View Post
Divide & conquer!
Rule #2 in the fisheries management hand-book. This is why people like Holly Binns (PEW trust) have such an easy time getting these regs passed. Chest pounding, name calling & yelling will never get us anywhere. I have been following fisheries theft..........management policy since Magnussen was created & never saw this kind of passion back then. All that I heard was "Man, that will never happen". Guess what? We are in the eleventh hour of a battle that is, at this point almost un-winnable.
Visiting marinas & boat ramps to educate & organize un-knowing people, phone calls to representatives & Sec. of Commerce Locke, talking to dive shops & tackle dealers are all good ways to organize a formidable force. I am afraid it is too late, though. This closure will just generate new revenue in the way of fines for new government management organizations. It will also make criminals out of good, everyday people.

Am I understanding you properly that you feel that restrictions on fishery activity are "theft"? Further, do I understand that you feel that stopping such "theft" can be accomplished by massing protesters? Increasingly biology carries a lot of weight and no amount of protesters will alter it's reality.

As for "government science", research into counting methods, biomass extrapolations & other math used to "estimate" fish populations are about as accurate as Global Warming science & "Ocean Acidification" science that use experiment data that is so skewed it has been laughed at by real scientists that are not on the government payroll. Really? And who told you this? Rush Limbaugh or maybe Glenn Beck?

As for far less grouper than "back in the day", if you go out deep enough, you will find that spawning aggregations are still congregating in places with less pressure. Grouper are not stupid! No, but various species are geared to certain areas and depth ranges and that can't be changed. The majority of the primary gag spawning area along the southeast coast is in the state waters of Palm Beach County - places where every aggregating spot is marked out on the GPS and they pounded to death every year. Saying, "I get just as many fish as I used to. I may have to go to the abyssal plain and a hundred miles away but I can still get them" isn't a convincing argument that fish stocks aren't in trouble.I can still take people to places that hold masses of grouper that would scare you! I have found that memories of the glory days tend to get fuzzy after the passage of time. No offense to anyone! Acres of Grouper is probably an exaggeration or a distant memory. Well, I never said I saw acres of gag grouper, instead many locations of over a hundred fish, but I do know people who were there earlier than I was and they saw a lot more. I'm not so old that memories are fuzzy on this issue and I've never been given over to exaggeration since I was taught early on by my father that the truth does not need to be exaggerated. People opposed to these regs are not going to avoid them by claiming "It was never as good as these "old timers" say it was". It was, and given the improvement in other properly managed fish stocks, you may get lucky enough to live to see things you may, with your lack of experience, believe are not possible.

If they close a certain area, fishermen will just fish down the chain until another species is declared as over-fished.
Also, if the fish under regulation were to ever reach the numbers that gov't scientists say they should be at, there would not be enough food, or habitat to sustain any of them.
Fisheries management is following along the same lines as the current administration. Far right or far left. No compromise!
We have a group of head-boat captains here in GA(with the assistance of the CCA) that have come up with a proposal to completely ban spear-fishing & also close the Artificial Reefs! Also there would be "special research catch permits" issued to select captains to fish the closed areas! Captains that have claimed to be in support of us. CCA supports the closure. There was a time they didn't.

Divide & conquer!

Manage and restore!

Go to this link http://www.safmc.net/Meetings/Counci...1/Default.aspx & read some real depressing crap that is too late to turn.
It will show the results of the Charleston meeting & how each rep voted.
Divide & conquer!
Read the signatures of SC fishermen that want to implement IFQ's & Catch shares!
Public comment will be accepted through October. Put some of this negative energy to good use & organize!
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:30 PM   #144
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biminibill View Post
Dear FWCC Staff Members,

This email serves as my official request that the attached forum entries be included in the official record of the process of developing/modifying the grouper and permit regulations as they pertain to state and Federal waters off the coasts of Florida. While the document is lengthy and centers on grouper, it serves well to apprise the commissioners of the various mindsets of the spearfishermen who will be governed by the regulations the Commissioners approve and as well the potential impact on both resources. I have included the attached word file that contains all posts up to the time of this email in case the forum is pulled. Should the forum remain intact it may be easier to read the postings by going directly to the link at: http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=92102 I suspect that there will be more posts to come. Please feel free to contact me at your convenience should you have any questions or need any assistance.

Best Regards,

Bill Parks


I just put your money where your mouths are. Let's see how this goes...
Hope they read this then...http://spearboard.com/showthread.php...ghlight=permit
This post and that thread are just another show of your maturity level and (lack of) intelligence.
"I'll show those dumb ole spearfisherman how evil they all are" eh bill?
It's no wonder regulators all roll their eyes at the mere mention of your name.
What exactly do ramblings on a completely anonymous, internet, chat board (a virtual bar) have to do with the way managers are tasked with doing their jobs?
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:35 PM   #145
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

Bill:

Remember the old saying "Never try to teach a pig to sing, you will just waste your time and annoy the pig!"
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:53 PM   #146
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

What exactly do ramblings on a completely anonymous, internet, chat board (a virtual bar) have to do with the way managers are tasked with doing their jobs?[/color][/quote]

Oh, you'll find out, Rich.....you'll find out....
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:54 PM   #147
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

Bimini Bill:

You made the following statement: The majority of the primary gag spawning area along the southeast coast is in the state waters of Palm Beach County -

When you refer to the "Southeast Coast", what does that mean?

Also, I have been hunting gags for over 20 yrs in Palm Beach County and I can assure everyone that their abundance is down a lot from what it used to be. I am just as sure of the validity of this conclusion is I am when I say "the jewfish population has exploded in the same area".

I'm not interested in getting into some of the ridiculous dialog in this thread ,but I would like to know what you mean by southeast coast.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:02 PM   #148
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

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Bill:

Remember the old saying "Never try to teach a pig to sing, you will just waste your time and annoy the pig!"
True, Don, but the regulators need to see both sides of this issue - the people here who are progressive and the ones who aren't - so they can make their rules and decisions based on the mix of REAL users, not the polished idealistic users who don't exist. You notice that Rich is saying that I'm showing the spearfishermen as "evil" or some such similar adjective. Pardon me, but I haven't altered one word of what's been said. The spearfishermen are speaking for themselves, "evil" or otherwise. Can't pass the buck to me, Rich.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:03 PM   #149
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

I was wondering this too. I guess the masses of gags we see up her off Jax. in the winter are just lost.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:16 PM   #150
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Re: FWC to ban grouper in state waters

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Bimini Bill:

You made the following statement: The majority of the primary gag spawning area along the southeast coast is in the state waters of Palm Beach County -

When you refer to the "Southeast Coast", what does that mean?

Also, I have been hunting gags for over 20 yrs in Palm Beach County and I can assure everyone that their abundance is down a lot from what it used to be. I am just as sure of the validity of this conclusion is I am when I say "the jewfish population has exploded in the same area".

I'm not interested in getting into some of the ridiculous dialog in this thread ,but I would like to know what you mean by southeast coast.
Jim, define "exploded". I figure the present jewfish spawning aggregations, stretching from Delray to the MG-111 number less than 300 fish and certainly less than 500. Many of these animals will depart for points north once the spawning is over. Given that the numbers were near zero in this area when the protection went into effect, 500, even if only during the spawning aggregations, would seem huge by comparison. In reality, though 500 of any species over that much seafloor is hardly an "explosion". On the other hand, if the success with jewfish so far is any indication, we have every reason to be optimistic that gag may do very well in the years ahead.

As for Southeast Coast, I refer to that area from about Stuart to Ft. Lauderdale. During the winter spawning aggregations the highest concentrations of spawning fish were along here, particularly from Delray, northward to Hobe Sound and even inshore as shallow as ten feet along the reefs of Palm Beach, the jetties of Palm Beach Inlet.
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