Speargun Advice. All opinions welcome

[scottyboy679]

Originally Posted by "Yard-Sale Josh"

I'll take a shot at this, why not
1) supposed improved maneuverability, I personally cant stand the way hybrid style guns move through the water, just not for me at all. Go take someone elses gun for a test dive and see if they suit you

2) You can literally shoot anything on this earth with a 130cm gun
(also one thing to take note about the ulusubs is that their measurement system is total length, not barrel length as is generally standard when giving a gun length in cm, the 165 is much more like a "true" 130"

3) seasniper, gill, ulusub, to name 3

4) "Euroguns" generally just mean a rear handle placement to us people in the USA

I've had so many damn guns over the years, I've shot almost every brand under the sun and tried so many different configurations when it comes to shafts/bands/wraps. Over the past year and change ive moved almost completely to 130cm guns for my big fish hunting. My personal favorite for my style of diving is the pathos laser in a 130, the weight saved from the carbon seems to make a difference to me when you're trying to dive all day long to decent depth, If i had the extra cash lying around I might opt for one of the bleu tecs, they look/feel really nice. My next gun purchase will be a bleutec 140 for grouper hunting and when I go out for real bluewater fish in mexico and beyond. I've taken grouper to 80lbs, yellows to 60lbs, dorado, wsb pretty much anything you can think of with my 130's. I really like that length for California and beyond, joy to swim around with all day unlike a lot of the huge wooden guns I used to carry around

I'd cut the 120 down to a 90 or a 100 and pick up a 130 if I were in your position

Thanks alot for the answers and your opinions. I was looking at the Sea Snipers because I have heard a lot of good things about them. Are there any disadvantages to the enclosed track compared to the open track besides for price? Everything that I have really seen have been benefits for the enclosed track.

["Yard-Sale Josh"]

Originally Posted by scottyboy679

Thanks alot for the answers and your opinions. I was looking at the Sea Snipers because I have heard a lot of good things about them. Are there any disadvantages to the enclosed track compared to the open track besides for price? Everything that I have really seen have been benefits for the enclosed track.

I wish I could say I noticed the difference between the enclosed and the open but honestly I cant tell

I've got a sse 130 that needs a new home lol

[apexdiver]

Originally Posted by "Yard-Sale Josh"

I wish I could say I noticed the difference between the enclosed and the open but honestly I cant tell

l

Exactly my point!

[Ethan kills]

Originally Posted by apexdiver

Exactly my point!

Haha shoot a fish over 10 lbs from a distance. I won't question Kyle cause he is obviously dialed in, but, you should give it a go. Have you shot any fish yet? Didn't you go on the peace or with Damian recently?

[apexdiver]

Originally Posted by Ethan kills

Haha shoot a fish over 10 lbs from a distance. I won't question Kyle cause he is obviously dialed in, but, you should give it a go. Have you shot any fish yet? Didn't you go on the peace or with Damian recently?

Nope car broke down and man was i pissed,hopefully later this month.Either that or i may book a trip with leo.What do you mean by shot any fish?Are you talking paddie fish or just fish in general.

[teaknsteel]

Originally Posted by "Yard-Sale Josh"

I wish I could say I noticed the difference between the enclosed and the open but honestly I cant tell

Isn't that the point? The purpose of an enclosed track is to prevent shaft whip on an overpowered gun. A well set-up, overpowered enclosed track gun will shoot like an accurate opened track gun that isn't overpowered, but you will get greater distance and spine breaking power.

Josh, how in the world do you maneuver your 130 in thick kelp for WSB? I've tried using a 110 for a while in the kelp and it was such a huge pain. One of the reasons why I use a compact 53" midhandle. I do appreciate your point on the 130 being a very versatile gun.

Scottyboy, my suspicion is that if you ask oldskool socal folks, they will recommend a wood or hybrid midhandle in the 55-60" size, and euros from the new gen. I've shot both and like both for what they are with pros and cons with either. If you are mostly in open water, listen to Josh and get a 130 and cut your 120 to a 90ish gun. If you are in the kelp get a 60" midhandle for it's maneuverability and cut your 120 to 90.

[Castronova]

Originally Posted by "Yard-Sale Josh"

(also one thing to take note about the ulusubs is that their measurement system is total length, not barrel length as is generally standard when giving a gun length in cm, the 165 is much more like a "true" 130"

You are right about the measuring of the Ulusub being different than most but that band stretch is off. The 165 has 145cm of band stretch. Almost all of Jons guns have 20cm less band stretch than overall stated length (at least the 2 I have, unless he changed something).

...And I've used both enclosed and open track guns for the last few years and so long as you aren't using skinny shafts with tons of power (which I don't get the point of anyways) you do not need an enclosed track. I use a open track wood gun now and would not change it for anything. Shaft speed is unreal and aiming is much easier. You can use a 7.5 or 8mm on a 130 with 3 bands and I bet you won't see shaft whip if you don't use a flimsy soft shaft. Cutting back 10cm on overhang will help a lot too.

[Castronova]

Originally Posted by teaknsteel

Isn't that the point? The purpose of an enclosed track is to prevent shaft whip on an overpowered gun. A well set-up, overpowered enclosed track gun will shoot like an accurate opened track gun that isn't overpowered, but you will get greater distance and spine breaking power.

Maybe you just typed it wrong but I believe most people do exactly what you are saying. They have an enclosed track gun that weighs 5 lbs. so since the shaft won't whip they put 3/4 bands on it. You are right, you are overpowering the gun! Overpowering a shaft is one thing, overpowering the gun does nothing but add recoil and drastically reduce accuracy.

First rule is sticking with Phils 3-4#'s per band.

Shaft whip robs speed and accuracy, then people put more bands than the gun can handle and there goes accuracy out the window again. Doesn't make much sense.

["Yard-Sale Josh"]

Originally Posted by teaknsteel

Josh, how in the world do you maneuver your 130 in thick kelp for WSB? I've tried using a 110 for a while in the kelp and it was such a huge pain. One of the reasons why I use a compact 53" midhandle. I do appreciate your point on the 130 being a very versatile gun.

Scottyboy, my suspicion is that if you ask oldskool socal folks, they will recommend a wood or hybrid midhandle in the 55-60" size, and euros from the new gen. I've shot both and like both for what they are with pros and cons with either. If you are mostly in open water, listen to Josh and get a 130 and cut your 120 to a 90ish gun. If you are in the kelp get a 60" midhandle for it's maneuverability and cut your 120 to 90.

First of all if you swim with a euro upside down with the muzzle up by your head, it is no bigger or more cumbersome than a midhandle gun when just pounding the kelp for whites.
So how do I manuever my 130 in "heavy kelp"? i just took a measuring tape to my pathos, it 59 inches from butt to muzzle tip. combine that with the absolutely minimalist shaft overhang the guys at pathos have adapted (what guns should be) and we are looking at about 62 inches on the total package, butt to tip of spear, or what would be extended out from your hand when you shoot
I just measured my 65" pro seasniper from the bottom of the handle to the muzzle. It was 55". throw a shaft with a sliptip on that gun (even with absolutely minimal overhang how I set it up) and you are looking at about 63 inches from handle to tip. aka what you have extended from you when you take your shot
chalk that down to a 60inch gun and the numbers for length become closer to 58-60"+ depending on how you like you shaft overhang
So when it really does come down to it a euro isnt any longer than these huge wooden monstrosities we CA guys seem to just love swimming around the kelp with. Its really why I've always thought the "midhandles in kelp are more maneuverable" is dumb, you end up with the same amount of gun sticking out in front of you when take your shot with a properly set up euro, you may be off by like 3 inches, big whoop
If I were only targeting wsb in the kelp I'd rather opt for a 110-115, plenty of gun for croaker, but right now I dont have one so yeah I shoot 130's a whole lot in the kelp with no issues

[teaknsteel]

Originally Posted by "Yard-Sale Josh"

First of all if you swim with a euro upside down with the muzzle up by your head, it is no bigger or more cumbersome than a midhandle gun when just pounding the kelp for whites.
So how do I manuever my 130 in "heavy kelp"? i just took a measuring tape to my pathos, it 59 inches from butt to muzzle tip. combine that with the absolutely minimalist shaft overhang the guys at pathos have adapted (what guns should be) and we are looking at about 62 inches on the total package, butt to tip of spear, or what would be extended out from your hand when you shoot
I just measured my 65" pro seasniper from the bottom of the handle to the muzzle. It was 55". throw a shaft with a sliptip on that gun (even with absolutely minimal overhang how I set it up) and you are looking at about 63 inches from handle to tip. aka what you have extended from you when you take your shot
chalk that down to a 60inch gun and the numbers for length become closer to 58-60"+ depending on how you like you shaft overhang
So when it really does come down to it a euro isnt any longer than these huge wooden monstrosities we CA guys seem to just love swimming around the kelp with. Its really why I've always thought the "midhandles in kelp are more maneuverable" is dumb, you end up with the same amount of gun sticking out in front of you when take your shot with a properly set up euro, you may be off by like 3 inches, big whoop
If I were only targeting wsb in the kelp I'd rather opt for a 110-115, plenty of gun for croaker, but right now I dont have one so yeah I shoot 130's a whole lot in the kelp with no issues

You make a good point about the similar lengths, but I don't think too many folks would recommend a 63" midhandle in the kelp. A major advantage of the midhandle in the kelp is that you can swing the gun better because of the forward placement of the handle, giving you better leverage. I can't imagine swinging a 130 in the kelp without readjusting your hands. But if it works for you, you do your thing.

BTW, how tall are you boy?!

[Ethan kills]

Originally Posted by "Yard-Sale Josh"

First of all if you swim with a euro upside down with the muzzle up by your head, it is no bigger or more cumbersome than a midhandle gun when just pounding the kelp for whites.
So how do I manuever my 130 in "heavy kelp"? i just took a measuring tape to my pathos, it 59 inches from butt to muzzle tip. combine that with the absolutely minimalist shaft overhang the guys at pathos have adapted (what guns should be) and we are looking at about 62 inches on the total package, butt to tip of spear, or what would be extended out from your hand when you shoot
I just measured my 65" pro seasniper from the bottom of the handle to the muzzle. It was 55". throw a shaft with a sliptip on that gun (even with absolutely minimal overhang how I set it up) and you are looking at about 63 inches from handle to tip. aka what you have extended from you when you take your shot
chalk that down to a 60inch gun and the numbers for length become closer to 58-60"+ depending on how you like you shaft overhang
So when it really does come down to it a euro isnt any longer than these huge wooden monstrosities we CA guys seem to just love swimming around the kelp with. Its really why I've always thought the "midhandles in kelp are more maneuverable" is dumb, you end up with the same amount of gun sticking out in front of you when take your shot with a properly set up euro, you may be off by like 3 inches, big whoop
If I were only targeting wsb in the kelp I'd rather opt for a 110-115, plenty of gun for croaker, but right now I dont have one so yeah I shoot 130's a whole lot in the kelp with no issues

I'll beat you in an armwrestling match

[wyatt youngs]

Originally Posted by Ethan kills

Haha shoot a fish over 10 lbs from a distance. I won't question Kyle cause he is obviously dialed in, but, you should give it a go. Have you shot any fish yet? Didn't you go on the peace or with Damian recently?

Tony (apexdiver) is actually a really good diver for his age I had the opportunity to dive with him last Thursday and am going with him and Jim T tomarrow
Wyatt

["Yard-Sale Josh"]

Originally Posted by teaknsteel

You make a good point about the similar lengths, but I don't think too many folks would recommend a 63" midhandle in the kelp. A major advantage of the midhandle in the kelp is that you can swing the gun better because of the forward placement of the handle, giving you better leverage. I can't imagine swinging a 130 in the kelp without readjusting your hands. But if it works for you, you do your thing.

BTW, how tall are you boy?!

I'm 6'0" 200lbs

I bet i can swing my carbon euro with one hand quicker than you can swing a 60" midhandle with two

["Yard-Sale Josh"]

Originally Posted by Ethan kills

I'll beat you in an armwrestling match

want me to tear your rotator cuff before or after we dive on wednesday?

[Ethan kills]

Originally Posted by "Yard-Sale Josh"

want me to tear your rotator cuff before or after we dive on wednesday?

I'll beat you and Mark in a sword fight!