Rollergun Recoil and the Jerk (not the owner!)

[doyenofcastle]

Originally Posted by Behslayer

Doyen of Castle, I'm not sure the long Bridge 6" before your rollers is doing you any favors. That looks like it would cause a disturbance before your shaft left the gun.

its only the one in front ,the sigal sub just for illustration its not fix to the gun ,I want to say if I am using the sigal short narrow bridge without enclosed track is it possible the fin will hit the bridge and change the spear direction ?

[popgun pete]

Originally Posted by doyenofcastle

its only the one in front ,the sigal sub just for illustration its not fix to the gun ,I want to say if I am using the sigal short narrow bridge without enclosed track is it possible the fin will hit the bridge and change the spear direction ?

How about putting this question on another thread as these side tracks derail any original thread's purpose. In Russian forums various intersecting issues spill all over the threads sending them to over 100 pages or more, I think one got to multiples of that and they were not only impossible to follow people gave up trying. The moderator being asleep at the wheel did not help either and we definitely don't want that happening here.

[mclane234]

Originally Posted by popgun pete

I never said that all the energy was transferred to the shaft, you better get your facts right or pay closer attention to what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote. I am an Applied Physicist by profession. As for the rest of your stuff I have dealt with it earlier and the double the speed is true, but the spear slows down the bands, so that speed increase is illusory with the side-pulley system as there are no energy multipliers in spearguns, only losses.

Perhaps i didn't understand what you wanted to say, but please elaborate this sentence:

If you look at the diagrams here then you can see rollerguns can seem more powerful than they are if all guns are using the same band stretch. In Rollergun 10 a three band gun has more energy than a twin axle band wrapping rollergun using the same band stretch and that is before subtracting the losses in energy going around the rollers.

If not all energy is trasfered to the shaft, what does this graph prove? Besides why even compare twin axle roller to a three band gun?

[doyenofcastle]

Originally Posted by popgun pete

How about putting this question on another thread as these side tracks derail any original thread's purpose. In Russian forums various intersecting issues spill all over the threads sending them to over 100 pages or more, I think one got to multiples of that and they were not only impossible to follow people gave up trying. The moderator being asleep at the wheel did not help either and we definitely don't want that happening here.

I think its not derail the thread ,its related to the main title ((Rollergun recoil and jerk )) ,when spear fin hit the bridge dose it cause the jerk or the jerk is another word to describe recoil?

[popgun pete]

Originally Posted by mclane234

Perhaps i didn't understand what you wanted to say, but please elaborate this sentence:



If not all energy is trasfered to the shaft, what does this graph prove? Besides why even compare twin axle roller to a three band gun?

The three band rollergun stores more energy than the two band, two axle rollergun as the dark green area is larger than the lime green area for the same band stretch. The three band rollergun has no energy absorbing rollers, so with more energy and the same size stock it will deliver a more powerful shot. The graphs compare the energy by superimposing the guns’ total energy and subtracting the common area from both and then the excess is compared in a geometric analysis of the areas. In a work-energy graph plotting force versus distance the area under the line or curve is the energy stored in the gun. Energy is a scalar, it has no direction or sense. E = F.d is the mathematical expression. By comparison r x F is a torque which is a vector T, but has the same units.

[popgun pete]

Originally Posted by doyenofcastle

I think its not derail the thread ,its related to the main title ((Rollergun recoil and jerk )) ,when spear fin hit the bridge dose it cause the jerk or the jerk is another word to describe recoil?

That is another problem entirely, the shaft whacking parts of the gun has nothing to do with recoil. If you cannot be bothered starting your own threads when you want advice on a problem then why not find one that pertains more directly to what you want to find out. You do this pretty often as I see most your posts here and no one minds answering them, but please have the courtesy of putting them in the correct context. Otherwise it shows a lack of mental discipline.

[mclane234]

Originally Posted by popgun pete

The three band rollergun stores more energy than the two band, two axle rollergun as the dark green area is larger than the lime green area for the same band stretch. The three band rollergun has no energy absorbing rollers, so with more energy and the same size stock it will deliver a more powerful shot. The graphs compare the energy by superimposing the guns’ total energy and subtracting the common area from both and then the excess is compared in a geometric analysis of the areas. In a work-energy graph plotting force versus distance the area under the line or curve is the energy stored in the gun. Energy is a scalar, it has no direction or sense. E = F.d is the mathematical expression. By comparison r x F is a torque which is a vector T, but has the same units.

Does the graph compare three band rollergun or three band classic gun, with the twin axle rollergun?

[popgun pete]

Originally Posted by mclane234

Does the graph compare three band rollergun or three band classic gun, with the twin axle rollergun?

Look at the drawing, that is a standard 3 band gun shown vertically oriented to fit it on the page. It pays to concentrate when you look at something when it is not put there purely for decoration.

[mclane234]

Originally Posted by popgun pete

Look at the drawing, that is a standard 3 band gun shown vertically oriented to fit it on the page. It pays to concentrate when you look at something when it is not put there for purely for decoration.

The three band rollergun stores more energy than the two band, two axle rollergun as the dark green area is larger than the lime green area for the same band stretch. The three band rollergun has no energy absorbing rollers

Indeed it does. I just thought to get my facts straight seeing how i might have misread some things coming from the Applied physicist. Now if his highness isn't that troubled, can i get an answer to, why is a three band classic gun compared to a twin-axle rollergun, and what was the purpose of this graph?

[popgun pete]

Originally Posted by mclane234

Indeed it does. I just thought to get my facts straight seeing how i might have misread some things coming from the Applied physicist. Now if his highness isn't that troubled, can i get an answer to, why is a three band classic gun compared to a twin-axle rollergun, and what was the purpose of this graph?

If you want to know more then go back to where they originated https://forums.deeperblue.com/thread...agrams.107171/

I don't have the time, or inclination, to say more as I assumed some intelligence on the part of readers. And caps lock or large font entries do you no favors as you display your attitude to all and sundry.

[mclane234]

Originally Posted by popgun pete

If you want to know more then go back to where they originated https://forums.deeperblue.com/thread...agrams.107171/

I don't have the time, or inclination, to say more as I assumed some intelligence on the part of readers. And caps lock or large font entries do you no favors as you display your attitude to all and sundry.

My attitude? What attitude is that? Even if my claims were wrong, i think i gave you a space and time for a proper discussion. You on the other hand, instantly came around doubting my ability to read or interpret properly. When in fact i did prove that i can read at least some things properly, you accused me of being unconcentrated, when clearly it was you who made a typo. Normally, i wouldn't stick to this and would walk over it like i normally do, but not this time. After all this you question MY attitude? Seriously?

Either way, what i was trying to point out (like you, assuming some intelligence on the part of readers first, but more explicitly pointing out with caps lock later) is that if all the energy isn't translated to shaft (like i presumably wrongly assumed you wrote, but you obviously haven't done so) then this graph doesn't prove rollers perform worse than classic guns. Also, what i was trying to point out (again, assuming some intelligence on the part of readers first, especially coming from, for example, applied scientists) is that the real comparison would be to compare twin axle roller gun with a double band gun, and perhaps then draw the conclusion about the performance. Even then, the graph wouldn't prove that the more powered gun shoots faster, but it would at least be fair.

I don't know where your hate from rollerguns comes from, and to be honest, i am sure i don't even want to know. I even understand reasons that most people use when describing their arguments - be it complicated rigging/usage, bad expiriences, satisfaction with classic guns or something else. What bothers me is ignorance.

Regardless, i don't have time or inclination to say more, so to perhaps sometimes avoid these kinds of prolonged discussions, it does pay to concentrate when looking at something that is not there just for decoration, otherwise you risk displaying your attitude to all and sundry.

[popgun pete]

Originally Posted by mclane234

My attitude? What attitude is that? Even if my claims were wrong, i think i gave you a space and time for a proper discussion. You on the other hand, instantly came around doubting my ability to read or interpret properly. When in fact i did prove that i can read at least some things properly, you accused me of being unconcentrated, when clearly it was you who made a typo. Normally, i wouldn't stick to this and would walk over it like i normally do, but not this time. After all this you question MY attitude? Seriously?

Either way, what i was trying to point out (like you, assuming some intelligence on the part of readers first, but more explicitly pointing out with caps lock later) is that if all the energy isn't translated to shaft (like i presumably wrongly assumed you wrote, but you obviously haven't done so) then this graph doesn't prove rollers perform worse than classic guns. Also, what i was trying to point out (again, assuming some intelligence on the part of readers first, especially coming from, for example, applied scientists) is that the real comparison would be to compare twin axle roller gun with a double band gun, and perhaps then draw the conclusion about the performance. Even then, the graph wouldn't prove that the more powered gun shoots faster, but it would at least be fair.

I don't know where your hate from rollerguns comes from, and to be honest, i am sure i don't even want to know. I even understand reasons that most people use when describing their arguments - be it complicated rigging/usage, bad expiriences, satisfaction with classic guns or something else. What bothers me is ignorance.

Regardless, i don't have time or inclination to say more, so to perhaps sometimes avoid these kinds of prolonged discussions, it does pay to concentrate when looking at something that is not there just for decoration, otherwise you risk displaying your attitude to all and sundry.

I have asked the moderator to delete this exchange, many people have read this thread and don't seem to have a problem and you are not doing yourself any favors here. I don't hate rollerguns and you demonstrate your inability to read and think by going off half-cocked when you ain't done your homework. Tribalism at work I guess, but I am no head-kicker and we will leave it at that. Hopefully next time I look this unedifying discourse will have been removed.

[2fishin2]

Originally Posted by popgun pete

I have asked the moderator to delete this exchange, many people have read this thread and don't seem to have a problem and you are not doing yourself any favors here. I don't hate rollerguns and you demonstrate your inability to read and think by going off half-cocked when you ain't done your homework. Tribalism at work I guess, but I am no head-kicker and we will leave it at that. Hopefully next time I look this unedifying discourse will have been removed.

Actually I see his point clearly. First this isnt YOUR thread its OUR thread. Your attitude towards any person who disagrees with ANYTHING you say well in simple layman's terms IT SUCKS!

[popgun pete]

Originally Posted by 2fishin2

Actually I see his point clearly. First this isnt YOUR thread its OUR thread. Your attitude towards any person who disagrees with ANYTHING you say well in simple layman's terms IT SUCKS!

Well you don't have to read it if you don't like it.

[mclane234]

Originally Posted by popgun pete

Well you don't have to read it if you don't like it.

Applying the same logic, why ask to delete these posts?