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Old 04-14-2017, 01:48 AM   #31
spearq8
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

This is a new trigger, so it will take some time to get them in the pipeline. For the Abellan, there probably will be a few extra changes and the final trigger will probably be slightly different to better fit the Abellan design. The Abellan trigger already works very well and doesn't have too many problems ... so there must really be a compelling improvement before a switch is made ... and I do think there is. I do think it will be by far the best and most robust reverse trigger yet. It has been designed from the start with the known problems of trigger design in mind (I actually had a list of problems), and great effort was made in solving these problems one by one ... while at the same time getting the trigger pull where it is absolutely crisp and predictable regardless of the loading. Accurate shooting is just incredibly easy with a predictable and crisp trigger pull, and if you have a good speargun platform it will really make a dramatic difference in accuracy. This just shows that designing a product for spearfishing is just like designing a product for anything else ... you just make a list of known problems and you work to solve them one by one ... eventually you will stumble on something much better.

I do think that this is the first trigger that was designed with accuracy as a criteria for development. Getting the trigger to shoot well was actually quite easy ... getting it to shoot super accurate is what took a long time.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:31 AM   #32
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Jon,

That was an interesting picture you had up there, why did you take it down? Did you mean to post it in the Abellan thread? You don't need that anyways, just put small ID 14mm bands on, they're the real game changer.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:10 PM   #33
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Hi Justin,
I thought better of sharing that publicly. I only wanted to really share it with Majd. Just a glimpse at something I been working on here for several months. I'll share more soon enough. Long RI winters are good for work.. I just stopped chopping wood this week.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #34
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Yes, the Small ID bands do change things. As said, they allow us to use 2 bands instead of 3, 3 bands instead of 4, 4 bands instead of 5. Also, as we use them at higher stretch and they are thinner, there is considerably less mass of bands. I think I calculated it out to just over 50% of the mass of bands in some cases. Uge difference. This effects recoil. This effects what is required in mass of the gun. This effects design. As I've said before. I don't think you'd be nearly as happy with the performance of your gun if it needed to use 4 x 5/8" Regular ID bands to bring an 11/32" to TV..
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:18 PM   #35
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Hi Justin,
I thought better of sharing that publicly. I only wanted to really share it with Majd. Just a glimpse at something I been working on here for several months. I'll share more soon enough. Long RI winters are good for work.. I just stopped chopping wood this week.
I understand. You have to protect your ideas.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:24 PM   #36
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

My ideas are obviously shared with all of my customers.. but I'm always working on several new things in here and they take months and years to bring from concept through development and then through testing before I share them publicly. I do have a some people who I discuss development with through all the stages and they help me a ton. Probably like Victor is always sending you heaps of drawings, parts, samples, mock ups, prototypes, for your input and ideas, testing, and comment, I have friends which I reach out to almost daily.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:38 PM   #37
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

But I can already see where this comment is going so I would refer you to this video to explain better. Filmed right where I learned to dive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZmCJUSC6g
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Old 04-14-2017, 02:34 PM   #38
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

I was just giving you a hard time Jon...don't be thin skinned. Victor could have patented some of his design elements but like you probably doesn't do it for those reasons.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:28 PM   #39
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Good news for American shaft users, it seems like one trigger will handle both american notch and euro notch shafts perfectly. The 6.78mm roller I had tested in this test worked perfect for euro, and now in testing the 6.75mm roller (virtually identical size) worked perfectly and passed multiple heavy load testing with american notch. Also asked Mario to configure a spring line release and it looks very promising. Of course that needs to be very heavily tested to make sure that the spring does not affect the performance of shaft exiting the trigger, but I think that can easily be tuned by adjusting spring tension. In previous triggers with springs on line release, I had several that hurt performance as the spring tension would use up a lot of shaft velocity to overcome. I think so long we know that is a possible problem we can make sure it doesn't happen. A spring line release makes loading the gun much quicker and much easier ... so hopefully that can be a feature that can be added. Here is a video of the spring line release.


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Old 07-18-2017, 08:48 PM   #40
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Are these mechs available and can they be pinned in place?
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:12 AM   #41
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

If you have the skills to side pin a trigger on a wood gun then you probably also have the skills to remove the 4mm pin that holds the shaft sear and replace it with a longer 4mm pin that would go through the stock and act as both a pinning pin and a sear shaft pin. There is also an empty pin hole up front near the trigger (placed to help install the components of the trigger). But really ... pinning the trigger is absolutely not necessary and it sort of burns your bridges with regards to possible adjustment of trigger height. If you recess the trigger arms into the stock (and you should) and cut the trigger pocket correctly ... nothing is going to move that trigger out of there. Most of the force is lateral. If you are still not convinced and you want to make a gun that uses say ... 6 bands or more ... you could run a SS bolt rather than a screw on the back trigger hole and have on the bottom of your stock a recess and then add a washer and a nylon tensioned SS nut on bottom. You would then have the bolt go through and connect to the SS nut. The washer has about a 12mm or 14mm cross section ... so it would be extremely secure against an uplift force.

I have asked Mario to add an extra pin hole ... but that is more as a possibility to add a pin that can be welded to strengthen the box or to guarantee a perfect box dimensional tolerance ... but in heavy load testing the 2mm thick frame of the trigger was easily able to handle repeated super heavy loads ... so will be hard to give a good reason to do that. It certainly would not add anything to the cost of the trigger ... maybe will add a few grams of weight. A lot of people have asked for that so might be worth adding it. But again I absolutely think that pinning a trigger is not the best as it makes installing the trigger very difficult and you don't have the flexibility of fine tuning track to trigger seating.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:52 AM   #42
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

I have order one but not sure about the problem you describe in the beginning its reverse trigger ,2 side 4mm pins but it will be first trial ,I plan to order 2 more with 3 screws mounted ,comparing neptonic triggers to these which more safe ?
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:17 PM   #43
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Thanks for the reply Majd. The reason for wanting pins is to incorporate my hdpe handle which I mortise to accommodate the mech then pin both together.
I'm not opposed to using another handle though. Which one is used on the test gun in your video?
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Old 07-19-2017, 09:31 PM   #44
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

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Originally Posted by doyenofcastle View Post
I have order one but not sure about the problem you describe in the beginning its reverse trigger ,2 side 4mm pins but it will be first trial ,I plan to order 2 more with 3 screws mounted ,comparing neptonic triggers to these which more safe ?
Is that a double roll mech you have pictured?
The one I found online is different.
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Old 07-19-2017, 09:36 PM   #45
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

This one
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